Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: And one war ends?

nzlemming

Tue, 10 Sept 2013 14:22:37 +1200

Curia rang me last night regarding a "political survey". I declined to participate because I don't think much of them but I kind of regret not getting the questions first.

ChrisW

Tue, 10 Sept 2013 11:23:36 +1200

Curia sets a new reliability standard for question design in political polling –
"If a general election were held today, would you vote for a political party such as the National Party?"

Russell Brown

Tue, 10 Sept 2013 08:26:41 +1200

Interesting story in the Herald day looking at recent poll responses on cannabis legalisation.

The lead is Curia's poll for Family First, which used the extraordinary question:

"If an adult wishes to use a drug such as marijuana, they should be able to do so legally."

I guess "drug such as…

andin

Fri, 06 Sept 2013 22:47:14 +1200

And we also need to can the double standard and get tough with cancer sticks and booze.
Booze Yes! ...the other...well "killing me softly"
A song is not needed

Craig Young

Thu, 05 Sept 2013 08:32:33 +1200

I have no problem with that at all, Russell. I am certainly for reliable evidence-based research as a tool for public policy in this context. Class A drugs (or analogous categories in any replacement legislation) need to be those of proven toxicity, harm and injury to others. And we also…

Sacha

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 18:22:09 +1200

It's pretty rare to find a single property in NZ that doesn't have at least one plant that is tended by someone in the house.

So Avondale is part of West Auckland, then. :)

BenWilson

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 14:33:24 +1200

True dat. I have a lot of time for Chris Fowlie, but some of the other people who’ve been associated with NORML really do not help their cause.

They sound like a bunch of stoners. OTOH, it is odd to expect that advocates for decriminalization should in no way resemble…

Ray Gilbert

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 12:16:53 +1200

Nature Medicine has a short article on dueterated compound from June this year as these are apparently coming back in vogue in the pharmaceautical arena. It looks like the question of whether the compunds are novel and non-obvious therefore patentable. A court case will almost certainly be needed to determine…

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 11:28:35 +1200

I sometimes despair of NORML and ALCP ever being able to arrange it on our end. At times, the pot decriminalisation lobby in NZ has been its own worst enemy.

True dat. I have a lot of time for Chris Fowlie, but some of the other people who've been associated…

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 11:25:59 +1200

Why can’t we just get rid of Class C MOD drugs and concentrate our attention on Class As?

It would be nice if we could revisit those classifications altogether and re-align them according to risk. It doesn’t make any sense for [[http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/latest/link.aspx?id=DLM436586|hash/hash oil to be in the same schedule as…

Craig Young

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 10:21:57 +1200

Personally, while I strongly support medicinal cannabis and derivative access for those who need it (because I'm a gay man, because there's a strong evidential basis for its palliative effects in the context of HIV/AIDS and other medical conditions), I sometimes despair of NORML and ALCP ever being able to…

david westcot

Wed, 04 Sept 2013 01:10:21 +1200

here`s a fantastic article detailing the absurd & corrupt evolution of US cannabis laws actually A Speech to the California Judges Association 1995 annual conference if anyone has the time -a fascinating read. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/whiteb1.htm

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 19:53:40 +1200

And beer is easy to brew but most people, other than hobbyists, are content to simply purchase their supply.

It's way less easy than growing a plant. The number of veggie gardeners totally crushes the number of beer brewers, as evidenced by the size and number of shops selling the…

Martin Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 18:48:25 +1200

Aren't they just trying to take the stoners' eyes off the ball?. Big lobby bloc.

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 17:45:22 +1200

It does have the major disadvantage of being easy to grow, and thus hard to tax.

Under Colorado's med-pot regime — which is much tighter than California's, they've been tracking marijuana from seed to finished product for a while now. Individual seedlings have bar codes. I think they'll work out…

bmk

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 17:22:46 +1200

It does have the major disadvantage of being easy to grow, and thus hard to tax.

And beer is easy to brew but most people, other than hobbyists, are content to simply purchase their supply. Cannabis is also an annual plant so unless you use artificial lighting (with the added…

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 16:54:30 +1200

Why not go with the better-understood natural version?

It does have the major disadvantage of being easy to grow, and thus hard to tax.

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 16:33:52 +1200

I'm aware of a couple of NZers in the field who have gone to Colorado and encountered an incredulous response to the news that we're keeping the well-understood drug illegal and preparing to approve new ones.

LOL the stoners have forgotten how recently they were doing the same thing. Oceania…

Stewart

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 16:32:17 +1200

keeping the well-understood drug illegal and preparing to approve new ones

This is what has bugged me about the whole 'synthetic cannabis' scare. Most of the synthetic versions are dangerous, or have appeared to cause dangerous effects, yet the actual cannabis itself is relatively benign (overconsumption of super-strength strains by…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 14:41:34 +1200

It’s hard to believe that the USA has stolen a march on us in the area of sensible drug laws. Somehow their crazy mixed up system actually got something right.

But only because they left it up to a popular vote :-)

I'm aware of a couple of NZers in…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 14:40:53 +1200

Which clarifies things a lot, thanks.

I hadn't realized there are "schedule 7 analogues" which are specified in precise terms and then a catch-all for other similar substances.

Kumara Republic

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 14:40:09 +1200

A remarkable milestone, given how long the big lie concocted by William Randolph Hearst and the Du Pont Company, among others, has persisted. Is Capitol Hill finally realising that there’s no use attacking the symptom, just as it came to its senses with 1920s Prohibition?

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 13:51:57 +1200

It's hard to believe that the USA has stolen a march on us in the area of sensible drug laws. Somehow their crazy mixed up system actually got something right.

James Dunne

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 12:56:22 +1200

Somebody will probably put it to the test sooner or later: there is an argument that the wording of section 9 of the Psychoactive Substances Act leaves space for a controlled drug analogue that is not one of the analogues specifically set out in the schedules to the Act to…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 12:40:36 +1200

Okay, I found out a bit more. Acting on the demonstrable fallacy that drugs have been strictly classified according to risk, authorities have treated the analogue provision as a kind of presumptive measure of risk. So if it resembles something that's banned, it should also be banned.

But that won't…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 12:31:35 +1200

Got a Twitter reply from James Dunne at Chen Palmer (who have acted for Bowden in the past) saying that "analogues are not eligible for approval but an approved product does not become illegal if it becomes an analogue."

Which I take to mean that any drug already found to…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 12:08:18 +1200

IANAL, but my reading of this is that analogues *can* be taken through the process.

I see what you mean. But the official briefing paper says this:

Once the bill takes effect, any products that have been legally available for sale over the past six months must begin their approval…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 11:39:46 +1200

Incidentally, I'd like to see deuterium analogues investigated. Deuterated amphetamines have been researched and I believe tritiated pharmaceuticals are used as tracers (become your own glowstick!).

It's an interesting question as to whether a molecule which has a non-natural isotopic composition is an analogue or the original molecule, legally?

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 11:31:48 +1200

As far as I'm aware, the Psychoactive Substances Act (sched 2 part1) changed the Misuse Of Drugs Act (s2) such that an approved psychoactive substance is carved out of the meaning of "controlled drug analogue".

IANAL, but my reading of this is that analogues *can* be taken through the process.

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 11:15:46 +1200

If analogues are eligible for the approval process, that’s a good thing.

I would be surprised if they were.

That’s what I thought. And I now see those comments aren’t there any more …

But the very broad reach of the analogues provision is problematic. It excludes from the process…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 11:08:08 +1200

If analogues are eligible for the approval process, that's a good thing.

I would be surprised if they were.

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 10:47:04 +1200

Interestingly, Matt Bowden indicated in the comments under his photos that he believes he will be able seek approval for Ease (aka methylone), which was withdrawn from sale after being deemed in breach of the MoD Act's very broad analogue provisions. If analogues are eligible for the approval process, that's…

Public Address

Tue, 03 Sept 2013 10:47:03 +1200

Discussion from blog post.