if anything I think that academic writing style isn't pushed enough.

And thank [deity] for that. Academic writing is bollocks. Other than having to crash-relearn elementary algebra (lost in a fog of traumatic amnesia a decade prior to starting my degree) in order to complete my mandatory stage one economics…

As for making conventional coherent arguments; we are talking about communicating knowledge linearly. I suggest that explaining things in essays has significant limitations, constructing arguments as a series of points lined up one after the other could be seen as inefficient.

I'd agree is not the only way to exhange…

__Q: Do they have supermarkets like Coles and so on in New Zealand?
A: Sadly not. It is…

The Worlds Strangest Bird

Nah. That's Bjork.

(and to be fair, 'Look and Learn' also informed me that Maori had cannibalistic tendencies, which was clearly preposterous because my teachers and Weetbix cards had never mentioned such…

Joe: here's a primary source! From a University of Auckland faculty member, no less.

Oh far out! Pity I can't see the pictures though.
I did check out Peter Gutmann's CV (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/), but there's no mention of his ever having worked for Look and Learn,.

Craig, you should enjoy this. Today's Michael Laws outrage:

For a history graduate, Laws has a pretty short term perspective. Wanganui was a lot browner 150 years ago than it is now.

And he's a git.

Craig, you should enjoy this. Today's Michael Laws outrage

Oy... Memo to Hizzhonor: When Tariana Turia is bring the six pack of sanity to the party, it is time to go home, lie down in a dark room with a wet tea towel over your eyes and rest.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4645682a11.html

but there was a paper in Nature a while back showing that Wiki was pretty close to the Encyclopaedia Britannica in terms of accuracy.

More accurate than Encarta in terms of historical data, and only slightly less than Britannica, according to the Roy Rosenzweig article I quote upthread.

(There's a…

Re Wiki refs: Possibly the silliest bibliography I ever saw was one with just one reference – google. No more, no less. Can't be bothered searching at…

I've heard of lecturers setting assignments of either writing a Wikipedia page, or correcting an error.

I would make this compulsory at primary school level – writing something completely bogus but getting it formatted to look plausible. I still remember at that age reading in the British "Look and Learn"…

I have an alternative point of view.

Okay, sorry, I honestly thought you were winding us up with the apostrophe thing. We ought to make allowances for people with dislexia, of course. But other than that if anything I think that academic writing style isn't pushed enough. I tutored in…

I think there are two senses of "reference" being used here:
something you refer to for more information when you a learning about a topic, and something you cite in a scholarly work. Encyclopedias (with Terence's case as an exception) aren't generally suitable for the second role, especially Wikipedia

Yes,…

I think there are two senses of "reference" being used here:
something you refer to for more information when you a learning about a topic, and something you cite in a scholarly work.

Yeah, I probably should have said "cite". After all, even the superhuman powers of university lecturers are…

Personally I think it's somewhat elitist. Yes wikipedia is more likely in many areas to be wrong, but if a student gets a correct fact from…

One of my uni lecturers has announced that using Wikipedia as a reference means you will automatically fail the assigment.

Poor form. Wiki is a perfectly acceptable starting point, although in my discipline, I would far rather they went to the excellent Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It's when they don't…

Sure, show a name – or a first name +…

And I raise you John Banks. Twice.

And for the first time in my life, I threw out my ballot papers and didn't vote either way for the Mayor and Council of the North Shore, the ARC or the Waitemata DHB. So, I guess, I'm not in a very good…

It has the plus of illustrating the potential unreliability of Wikipedia.

Seriously, why would you want Laws as your Mayor?

And I raise you John Banks. Twice.

And it is specifically not supposed to be original research.

Indeed not, but the good ones have citations (with live links) up the wazoo. And if you've been in a tertiary institution for longer than a week and are still utterly clueless about critical assessment of research material... well, should…

Wikipedia seems singularly unsuitable for referencing simply because of its transient nature. You could reference it, and two weeks later the page might not say the same thing. Regardless of the quality of information, the mechanism doesn't lend itself to use in academic papers.

Yes, I think that's one of…

I honestly can't recall a single situation where I have ever contemplated referencing an encyclopedia in four years of uni.

I can, in my masters thesis. I needed simple background information about the two cities whose governance processes I was studying (founding date, for example). This information is not common…

SKY magazine (I got the dish for Maori TV – because that's the only way I can get Maori TV on the Coast.)

That's pretty dear for a TV listing that last I looked didn't have the FTA channels in it.
I'll stick with the Listener for the moment, at…

Where else do people look? Or have you all given up on the teev?"

Well, Karen, my only advice is NOT to look in the DomPost film review section. Phillip Wakefield lost his…

BitTorrent kindof makes it redundant, except for the six o'clock news.

The six o'clock news is doing a stunning job at making itself redundant.

As for The Listener, we still get it, but it's kind of paying for what we'd like the Listener to be, hoping that if we stick…

Conversely, if a student makes up a reference in a paper to something like:
Smyth et al, Journal of Applied Chronology, May 1973
does the lecturer get sacked for not making a trip to the library to validate if the paper really exists?

Go to the library to look up…

but at least the terminally self-important Alan Jones has the decency not to affect drag-queen-heavy eyeliner.

Joe: Thems fighting words, and hell hath no fury like a drag queen scorned. :) As a dear drag queen friend of mine put it, there good bad taste and bad bad taste. Here's…

Where else do people look? Or have you all given up on the teev?

BitTorrent kindof makes it redundant, except for the six o'clock news.

South American Qualifiers, 2008
(Paraguay won)

And I don't know about you, Joe, but Michael Laws is a fatuous fuckwit with or without a photo by-line.

Y'know, I used to think that NZ-style demagogue-puffery hadn't descended to the depths of tackiness evident in Australia, but at least the terminally self-important Alan Jones has the decency not…

And how different again from teh interhosen, where anonymous and pseudonymous commenters are regularly scolded for their failure to fully front up

Yes, Joe. Because if The Herald or The Economist runs an (anonymous) editorial or (signed) column accusing you of – for the sake of argument – trying to…

. . . as opposed to the rather toxic cult of personality and ego that passes for modern journalism.

And how different again from teh interhosen, where anonymous and pseudonymous commenters are regularly scolded for their failure to fully front up.

Very subjective opinion in the Editorial and not enough courage to declare the writer does not enhance the credibility of what is usually a strong political view.

It helps if one can make allowance for the individual writers preferences, but The Listener prefers to keep them nameless.

If I wanted…

I presume that the amount of work on both sides in doing this would have been immense –

I would have thought for TM, it would have been the work of about five minutes once they knew the identities of the people they wanted to look at.

I'm going to…

Matthew: they could start with one degree (suspects' contacts) and make a second request to pursue others that seem worthwhile.

I presume that the amount of work on both sides in doing this would have been immense – both the police in coming up with a list, and then trademe…

I would like to see better protection of disclosure documents.

In which case you'll need to get a law passed regarding what those who have been charged can do with disclosure documents. After all, the documents are their property, not just in their care. They can do with their property…

The Listener's been going downhill since the women took over

Very subjective opinion in the Editorial and not enough courage to declare the writer does not enhance the credibility of what is usually a strong political view.

It helps if one can make allowance for the individual writers preferences, but…

So that would indicate that the 3000 is one degree of separation from the suspects. That's an astoundingly high figure, assuming that it's only those that are facing trial that are 'suspects'.

I wouldn't make that assumption. Evidence gathered by warrant can rule a person out from being charged. Also…

I'm not sure why you bring up Cate Brett, as I was not thinking of "poster girls for women in the media".

You certainly weren't, but she is the only woman in the editor's chair of a major newspaper. (Since Sue Chetwin got 'kicked upstairs' into management a couple of…

One of my uni lecturers has announced that using Wikipedia as a reference means you will automatically fail the assigment

Conversely, if a student makes up a reference in a paper to something like:
Smyth et al, Journal of Applied Chronology, May 1973

does the lecturer get sacked for not…

On Wikipedia. At my second-to-last…

You're asking a bit much there. They have protestors and dope-smokers (quick, break out the helicopter!) to arrest.

That's a helpful attitude. They tried to do some real police work in this instance – investigate, collect evidence, prosecute.

Matthew: they could start with one degree (suspects' contacts) and make a second request to pursue others that seem worthwhile.

What, do actual police work? Their job, in other words?

You're asking a bit much there. They have protestors and dope-smokers (quick, break out the helicopter!) to arrest.

rian Easton and Diana Wichtel only goodies left now you've gone Russell.

Don't forget that nice Fiona Rae who does the TV pages!

As well as the aforementioned I would include Jim Pinckney's music reviews. Nick Bollinger's a heck of a nice chap but Stinky Jim usually gets to the…

I'd strongly debate that it was a "fishing expedition" — they've sought information on people with a direct trading link to the suspects, and in some cases those people have provided evidence.

But you'd think they could use public trading records to narrow the field before they execute their warrant…

I wouldn't normally spam, but since we're talking about web 2.0 and online research, it seems fair to mention the Firefox extension Zotero.

Hear, hear. (Or read, read, I suppose). It's one of those things, as the cliche goes, which makes you wonder how you used to operate without it.…

There is no suggestion that you were in any way related to these events last year, apart from being one of 3000 who traded with someone that was a suspect in this investigation.

So that would indicate that the 3000…

anyone who quotes wikipedia as their primary source deserves to be mocked roundly and marked out of academia.

Pretty much, yeah, I just think the automatic fail is going a tad far.
But no-one should even be thinking about footnoting with Wikipedia, and especially not for history, seeing as 90%…

so being in possession of it they had to hand it over during discovery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if documents or WHY are deemed not relevant to evidence they do not have to be revealed for discovery and are therefore deemed inadmissible?
Had this route been followed irrelevant…

it took me about 4 days to get a building consent for a car deck, but about 18 months to build it... which was down to the architect getting some measurements wrong, the slope providing an additional engineering…

But I wonder at people who regale others with, and seem to exclusively have, bad experiences... I really do wonder where the problem lies.

It took 2.5 years to get our consent for building our house. It took four weeks to build. And it was a *Lockwood*. Hardly some johnny-come-lately…

I'm with Danielle, you're welcome to use an encyclopaedia to do basic preliminary research on a topic at any level, but it's not a good enough source for tertiary research in its own right,

and i'm with both of you.

anyone who quotes wikipedia as their primary source deserves to…

Apropos citing Wikipedia – I'd be showing my students a page (edited 5 minutes before class) showing that, say, I had discovered New Zealand at the bottom of my sock…

Wgtn City COuncil building consent people were particularly fantastic

And on the flip side... Kapiti Coast District council were fantastic in helping me oppose a heinous development in our street. (The developer may well be whining about them though).

And do we really need blow-by- blow accounts of other columnists' misadventures in house renovation?

It's all the whining about building consents & councils that gets me. Masybe I've been lucky, but all my dealings with city & district councils have been amicable & efficient, Wgtn City COuncil building consent people were particularly…

But the problem is not that Wikipedia is an inferior…

we should be discouraging the police from embarking on such wide-ranging fishing trips in the first place.

It's a tough balance to strike. How far is too far when seeking trading records? Two degrees doesn't sound unreasonable, and clearly a judge thought it was acceptable, but when you're talking about…

Mind you, how else could you live with Murray McCully?

Suze: You were doing OK until you went there. I don't know – or much care – who Cate Brett's husband/de facto/CUP-cake/partner/frak-buddy/friend with benefits/whatever is, or what s/he does for a living. TheSunday Star Times is a tabloid in all…

Included are suggestions that copyright owners be given information about infringers “including their identities, means of production and distribution and relevant third parties”, presumably so the owners can pursue further action against them or keep…

ACTA negotiations are taking…

One of my uni lecturers has announced that using Wikipedia as a reference means you will automatically fail the assigment.

Yes, too harsh--and possibly counter-productive. A better strategy is to tell students that it cannot be the sole source, and needs to be set alongside other sources.

One of my uni lecturers has announced that using Wikipedia as a reference means you will automatically fail the assigment. On the one hand: kind of harsh. On the other: I can see where he's coming from.

Considering that any Wikipedia article worth its salt contains references to other articles…

we automatically think that what we do online is somehow private, when it so often is not.

I tend to assume the opposite actually, and act as if everything I'm doing or saying is at risk of being read and compiled. The internet for me is like being in front…

Getting students to realise that the internet is a public space (and also how to research without copypaste and wikipedia) is something we were told to work on all the time.

One of my uni lecturers has announced that using Wikipedia as a reference means you will automatically fail the…

... would certainly give me conflicting feelings.

Time to bring out the eye-dropper and the hydrochloric acid because that word picture isn't getting out of my head any other way...

haha my apologies Mr Ranapia :) But if you drew from my statement something unsavoury, well it's all in the eye of the beholder...

Tony Veitch prepares Listener Editorial team to be eaten by John Key

Time to bring out the eye-dropper and the hydrochloric acid because that word picture isn't getting out of my head any other way...

there ought to be the perfect PA comments generator

Tony Veitch prepares Listener Editorial team to be eaten by John Key

It's faring much better than Metro (17% down in a year!)

Well, apart from the issue that had a drop dead gawjuss cardie-clad socialite gracing the social pages :), what is the point of difference between Metro and every other glossy lifestyle rag?

You might have thought Warwick Roger was…

does anyone know whats happened to their circulation in the last year or so?

The Audit Bureau of Circulation says total circulation (including freebies) is 65559 — down 4.4% on a year ago and 5.4% on six months ago.

It's faring much better than Metro (17% down in a year!) but…

Clifton and Easton I can read in the supermarket; does anyone know whats happened to their circulation in the last year or so?

Easton you can also read on his website, including the Listener columns as soon as the next issue has come out (and they're seldom so topical you…

Also, Russell, your last link (to the Herald) seems to be broken.

Ta. Fixed now.

Whatever prosecutions might be secured against the other seven defendants, they do not strike me as the kind of people who would employ the information as "a shopping list for criminals".

Well, that's probably true, but the next time this happens it might not be high-minded anarchists who…

Or Finlay McDonald's classic "Does My Mortgage Look Fat In This?"

Then again, Finlay shouldn't throw stones when he strokes his column weekly in the Sunday Star Times — aren't we about due for another 'The Dingo-Bank Ate My Lifestyle (And Forget That I Was A Total F**k-Wit To Get…

"How You Too Can Stay in Shape and Keep Your Job in the Current Property Downturn (And what It Means for NCEA)"?

Or Finlay McDonald's classic "Does My Mortgage Look Fat In This?"

To be fair, North and South are the real whiners when it comes to education. If I…

mean, how many times have they ran cover stories with the the words "How To..." or "How You Can..." ?

"How You Too Can Stay in Shape and Keep Your Job in the Current Property Downturn (And what It Means for NCEA)"?

but I find it extremely hard to believe that this would be a net that casts so wide as to be five figures in size.

That seems to be at issue. The Listener story says "at least 5000 and as many as 10,000" and the Trade Me advisory says 3000.

But the main issue Russell raises here points to that strange way that I think most of us view our online lives.

Because we tend to go online in the…

the eight pages of don't-worry-be-happy drivel that constitutes a cover story

Slagging the utterly mediocre Listener is shooting fish in a barrel territory these days I know, but that article really is abject, insipid, twaddle bereft of any genuine merit.

As I've said before, why don't they just change their…

Sunday, after The Listener reached subscribers

Does it? I've just had my third conversation in six weeks asking whether The Listener has gone to a bi-weekly publication without bothering to tell anyone. And each and every time I've been assured that issues are being addressed, resolved and... well, that's the…