Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: About the King's Arms (updated)

Lee B

Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:00:58 +1200

I think a further update to this is required…..

http://truecommercial.nzherald.co.nz/insights/news/property-articles/tavern-awaits-royal-redevelopment/

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 12 Apr 2016 17:26:13 +1200

some form of targeted rates relief?
plus
so long as what counts as culture is not decided mainly by those who favour classical, ballet and oil paintings – or ballsports – over other forms.
...mates rates?

Sacha

Tue, 12 Apr 2016 16:54:22 +1200

I wonder if there is scope for certain venues to be given cultural character ratings that allow them to continue for specified uses in return for some form of targeted rates relief?

Sounds promising, so long as what counts as culture is not decided mainly by those who favour classical,…

Jason Kemp

Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:27:53 +1200

I’m guessing that as the value of the land goes up the rates also go up and that starts to make the returns from the music venue business look fairly slim. I wonder if there is scope for certain venues to be given cultural character ratings that allow them to…

Christopher Dempsey

Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:30:59 +1200

Note; anyone can apply for consent over any property. In reality, one would never do it unless you had reasonable prospects of exercising that consent.

In that vein, anyone can make a submission on a District or Regional Plan about any property. Which is where we got our 'out of…

Christopher Dempsey

Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:28:01 +1200

Once you have SHA, you then need to apply for Qualifying Development Consent for the actual buildings. You have limited time to do this under legislation, compared to 5 years under RMA. The intent in the SHA act is to build, and build sooner, not later.

Sacha

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 23:40:57 +1200

wanted to future-proof the location

Yeah, I don't believe this does what she intended then, as SHA options expire very soon. Perhaps needs some better advice?

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:45:31 +1200

And yet more, from Newshub:

Owner Maureen Gordon says the support has been "very flattering", but it's all very much ado about nothing.

"You never say never, because some things could change direction and you're put in that position," she told Newshub. "But we're not willingly going out there and…

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:03:12 +1200

Some more ...

While anyone can apply for an SHA or any other content, the criteria in this case require that "the landowner's views be sought".

So I don't think Maureen was entirely in the dark about the designation being sought, and I don't think she objected to it.

But…

Scott G

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:49:39 +1200

Building on the parking lot, whilst a good use of space would be pretty terrible for the KA. It gets pretty loud in there sometimes and I can't imagine apartment dwellers that close to sound source wouldn't complain about it.

I'm all for density and brownfield development but I can't…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:43:21 +1200

The M25 in England is up to 6+6 lanes in places and still jamming solid

The southern approach to the Auckland Harbour Bridge is already 5+5, and I believe the plan for the Northwestern is 6+6 through to Te Atatu once the causeway widening is completed.

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:34:00 +1200

I checked the title on the other two properties in the SHA, 11 and 13 Karaka Street.

It sold in August last year to:

Alhan Ali Elsayed Selem
Kiwi Trustee Services Limited
Mohamed Selim
Susan Anne Bierre

They're investors who seem to have other ventures in common. Alhan Ali Essayed…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:28:35 +1200

If Auckland continues along the more cars/more sprawl/more motorways track they'll need the land in a few years for a future stage of widening the North Western motorway.

(The M25 in England is up to 6+6 lanes in places and still jamming solid).

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:48:09 +1200

Does that mean the designation also expires in 2018 unless utilised?

I think so.

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:47:48 +1200

I had a brief conversation with Kelly McEwan, the director of development at Urban Collective.

He wouldn’t comment on whether he’d spoken to Maureen Gordon or discussed a sale, but said that if Maureen says she’s not selling “then there’s nothing to worry about”.

He did note that development controls…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:26:30 +1200

The parts that expire inSeptember are those to do with establishing new SHAs and the rest rolls on until 2018.

Does that mean the designation also expires in 2018 unless utilised?

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:19:33 +1200

Here's the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Act 2013

The parts that expire inSeptember are those to do with establishing new SHAs and the rest rolls on until 2018.

So, yes, the 36 SHAs announced last week were the last under the act.

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:08:40 +1200

That’s the most plausible explanation I’ve heard.

I've called the developers and they're calling me back, possibly.

Brent Jackson

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:07:07 +1200

Probably worth mentioning that the SHA legislation expires in September, so I'd guess the developer has included the Kings Arms property since it is a desirable site, and it will not be possible to develop under the SHA rules unless it is included now.

bob daktari

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:06:02 +1200

I guess the crucial element to all of this is if and when Maureen and partners sell up who could even consider purchasing the place and continuing it on as a venue – the purchase price alone, I would imagine, would render any venue related ongoing revenue stream as simply…

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:46:40 +1200

Latest.

Sacha

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:24:15 +1200

it was a great venue

I recall good acoustics

Thomas Goodfellow

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:49:33 +1200

Splendid backgrounding link on Maureen: can only hope KA not only abides but passes into the hands of another such proper publican. Regarding the "we were here first so buy some earplugs (or come around and join in)" argument, I still faintly mourn the silencing of the Art Gallery clock…

Andrew Boak

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:01:16 +1200

Thanks for doing the research on this Russell, but even so, the whole debate on property developers profit driven plans vs what's good for the community is one that needs to continue. This scenario is a good wake-up call, albeit a bit of a false alarm it appears.
The loss…

Andre

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 23:44:35 +1200

The tenants are already vacating the building housing the gym, adjacent to two large car parking areas equal to that at TKA. A good site for better land use.

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:11:12 +1200

o I’m assuming (as a Wellingtonian with limited knowledge of the minutiae of Auckland’s social / cultural history) that it was a high density area with a very strong working class (presumably, above all, unskilled wkg class) population ?

Those people were shooed out ages ago. You’re now talking about…

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:09:13 +1200

You can apply for a Land Use consent over any land – whether you own it or not.

Which appears to be what's happened here. The strange part is that the greater part of the SHA is land currently not available for development. The preening statement from Urban Collective seems…

Scott G

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:04:56 +1200

Are you thinking of Temple Bar? Lasted until early 2000s.

Mr Mark

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:04:31 +1200

"It's worth noting that this is also an area where many more people used to live, before the motorway junction built in the 1960s forcibly displaced as many as 30,000 residents"

Newton, Arch Hill and Eden Terrace were at the core of one of the great Labour strongholds of the…

LeighKennaway

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:26:21 +1200

I’m not sure that the idea that they will use noise control to shut down the Kings Arms is real.

I'm sure our host Russell will remember the details better than I do, but there used to be a very popular live music venue in the old block of shops…

Jason Kemp

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:15:50 +1200

FWIW – I see that the redevelopment of the Orange Ballroom at the top of Newton road looks to be almost finished. That building had a very good "dance-floor" and almost certainly still does. The way that they "wrapped" the new development around the old building looks to be smart.…

Jason Kemp

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:55:11 +1200

I have just spent some time at an apartment on Karaka St earlier this afternoon. There are already plenty in the area and ironically at least some of those people live there in part because the KA is nearby and that makes the neighbourhood more liveable.

What is right next…

Simon Lyall

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:45:01 +1200

I'm note sure that the idea that they will use noise control to shut down the Kings Arms is real, this will surely take a few years even if they started building apartments tomorrow. More likely they added the KA property to the designation since it was a lot easier…

Robyn Gallagher

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:56:31 +1200

For contrast, what that same corner looks like today.

Robyn Gallagher

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:55:54 +1200

From Patrick Reynolds at Transportblog, the Kings Arms amid high-density housing in 1940. This is what Newton used to look like.

Back then, the King’s Arms was a classic NZ corner pub, complete with a lantern. But then the corner disappeared.

Nick D'Angelo

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:49:53 +1200

The SHA comprises two titles in Karaka Street, currently home to a gym, and the King’s Arms Tavern.

It is entirely possible that the Urban Collective could build an apartment block on the site of the gym, and then wait for the residents to make numerous noise complaints about the…

Sacha

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:45:56 +1200

Are you saying a developer can qualify for SHA status even if they have no legal arrangement with the owners of the designated parcel of land? Why would council sign off on such a dubious arrangement?

Lindsey Rea

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:26:24 +1200

You can apply for a Land Use consent over any land – whether you own it or not.Of course, you cannot utilise a consent unless you have the right to access the land. Getting an area designated as a SHA, and getting a development approved on it, can dramatically increase…

Sacha

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:22:25 +1200

Maureen has no intention to sell

Then how can her place be part of a parcel for SHA purposes? Some developers have been playing landbanking games, but this sounds a different sort of strange.

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:21:56 +1200

Okay ... things are getting strange now.

I've amended the post to reflect that Maureen Gordon apparently says the property is NOT for sale.

One theory is that the developer may have applied for SHA status to increase the value of the property to pressure a sale. But ... hmmm.

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:38:44 +1200

When did the dedicated venue at Galatos first open?

Here you go:

The property was built in the early 1900s and was originally the lodge for the United Ancient Order of Druids. It was subsequently used as a dance venue and boutique function centre. In the dancing era, its native timber…

James Littlewood*

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:31:20 +1200

Wow. Lotsa houses. Hardly any cars. And no rock'n'roll. When did the dedicated venue at Galatos first open?

Russell Brown

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:16:57 +1200

From Patrick Reynolds at Transportblog, the Kings Arms amid high-density housing in 1940. This is what Newton used to look like.

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:08:55 +1200

They could just redevelop the Vodafone data centre next door – or have they already?

Public Address

Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:08:55 +1200

Discussion from blog post.