2 trains will come from Britomart

Two at once, more often and more carriages. Will park up between Kingsland and Morningside ready for rapid exit towards town after the game.

John Banks said so

I believe that was the Mayoral Forum of all the region's mayors – who up until recently were constantly frustrated by the twerp currently in election mode vetoing otherwise consensus decisions. Worth remembering that their previous lack of cohesion is one of the reasons the amalgamation…

As for the number of ticket sold this pales into insignificance compared to the claimed TV audience

Yes, but we cover our costs from ticket sales, IRB gets all the TV income. Hence the temporary seats at Eden Park, they're to make more money.

I don’t get the (perceived) jibe at the IRB.

None intended – just making clear whose requirement it is. Sports is very big global business. NZRFU and the government's choice to play that game.

As for the number of ticket sold this pales into insignificance compared to the claimed TV…

I'd suggest that we were entitled to a turn at hosting the cup every so often *without* having to build new stadiums, remove civil rights from our population, etc.
It would be perfectly possible to have had the cup with the old 47,000 capacity Eden Park. They just wouldn't have…

So I struggle to see how the IRB can be seen as being unreasonable here.

Given that NZ is one of the three or four main rugby nations in terms of numbers playing and team performance, I'd suggest that we were entitled to a turn at hosting the cup every…

I would have but I was struggling to breathe through the cigarette smoke.

Because this wee country only has one city with enough accommodation and so on to host a crowd the size the IRB expects – and the other stadiums while nice are too small. For the IRB.

Correct. Except I don’t get the (perceived) jibe at the IRB.

As part of…

They were remarking about the lack of road signs in this country.

Tell them to look on the left side of the road?

thought 50 billion, myself. All those keen rugby fans out there on Betelgeuse 3 and Alpha-Centauri 7.

Well, according to that Reuters article the last football world cup had a total of 30 billion viewers for all matches. And that's only counting our solar system.

But apparently rugby is now…

Weird, I was asked for directions to Devonport by a German couple in a camper van who were lost in darkest Grey Lynn yesterday...

They were remarking about the lack of road signs in this country.

Ich bin ein Grey Lynner.

We took all the signs down so the invasion…

Why, Sportsfans, did the IRB insist on Auckland, when both Christchurch and Wellington have modern stadiums?

Because this wee country only has one city with enough accommodation and so on to host a crowd the size the IRB expects – and the other stadiums while nice are too small. For…

I'm guessing that outside rugby playing countries, the RWC feed is more or less free. Therefore Azerbajan TV will probably…

Compared with the 2007 RWC's cumulative audience of three billion viewers.

I thought 50 billion, myself. All those keen rugby fans out there on Betelgeuse 3 and Alpha-Centauri 7.

Of course, the Alpha Centaurans get the world cup somewhat more than four years out of date, and are currently keenly…

Rich of Obs

I haven't even lived in the place for three years, and would certainly never run for elected office there!

Ah I see. You want to pay for only a third of Auckland's stadium, while Dunedin new stadium is costing Auckland about 2% (govt contribution 15 million, divided by 3).

If that's how it works out, sure. I prefer to see it like this: Eden Park is being done up…

Sitting down? Don't have figures to hand, but they exist.

I'm always bemused by these, sitting in a part of the world where not only about half the world's population wakes daily, but aside from a smattering in Japan and Hong Kong and a few expats here and there absolutely…

The idea that Auckland ratepayers shouldn't contribute any money to Eden Park just because they don't own it seems a bit bizarre.

Not that I completely disagree (I don't) but you have to remember that up until the whole supercity thing goes live, a lot of "Aucklanders" don't live in…

Given that Auckland contributes 1/3 of the national tax take, I think we'd be doing a fair bit of funding of our own stadium, don't you?

Ah I see. You want to pay for only a third of Auckland's stadium, while Dunedin new stadium is costing Auckland about 2% (govt…

They were remarking about the lack of road signs in this country.

They've clearly never been to Indonesia

Two teams from Tiraspol, the capital of Transnistria, play in the Ukraine Rugby League: Dynamo-Center and Olimp-Electronmash.

Paul: Your scholarship continues to astound me. How many teams played in the Oompa-Loompa League?

Weird, I was asked for directions to Devonport by a German couple in a camper van who were lost in darkest Grey Lynn yesterday...

They were remarking about the lack…

And when was the last time you saw someone at the RWC wipe out after hitting a dog?

I'm specifically referring to this, from the 2007 Tour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0dzMp61G5w

Although you'll note that there was quite a problem that year. Also from 2007:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZrxyijba50

Note that in both cases, the dog…

The official fruit of the Republic o Devonport

Also, if last night's experience at Manuka was anything to go by, Devonport's official language is now German.

The opportunity to do something different was there, Auckland chose otherwise.

Hang on. The equivalent would be the government saying to Wellingtonians that they had two weeks to agree to the caketin being plonked right in the main part of their waterfront, solidly blocking out views and pre-empting any other…

And when was the last time you saw someone at the RWC wipe out after hitting a dog?

rofflenui

Yup: the Tour de France.

We're practically half-way there already.

You miss my point. Having had the opportunity to build a new stadium, not owned by the Eden Park Trust, it's a bit rich to now complain about putting the money into the stadium that they own.

Ah, but. According to the IRB

potential economic benefits of up to £2.1…

Wait, you want us to pay for our stadia, and all of yours too? That didn't seem a bit greedy when you typed it?

Given that Auckland contributes 1/3 of the national tax take, I think we'd be doing a fair bit of funding of our own stadium, don't you?…

Tour de France

Point Chevalier sounds French!
Vive la RWC! (Round Waitakere Cycle?)
and we have all those cycleways to promote...

Yup: the Tour de France.

Think…

If from lemons you can make lemonade, it stands to reason that from Pears you can make Pear Brandy ;)

and make it Schnappy...

You mean the waterfront stadium idea?

You miss my point. Having had the opportunity to build a new stadium, not owned by the Eden Park Trust, it's a bit rich to now complain about putting the money into the stadium that they own. The opportunity to do something different was…

I’m not saying the RWC audience isn’t big (although not such a favourable time-zone in 2011), I just think the 3rd Biggest in the World line gets thrown around a bit casually.

With all such audience claims, I think you need to add a whole bag of salt!

So does the WSJ's numbers guy.

As you might expect the big numbers always turn out to actually refer to the number of people with access to the broadcast.

And [[http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/mediazone/news/newsid=2027271.html|Deloitte's impact report for…

they were giving an aggressive positive spin to viewer numbers.

In wake of the Beijing Olympics, there were all kinds of viewing figures being tossed around. I read, variously, of claims of 87% and 94% of the Chinese population tuning into the event. But I couldn't find how such claims…

The sponsors aren't interested in those numbers so why would the NZRFU inflate their estimates.

It wasn't NZRFU that was estimating, it was UEFA. Unless you're suggesting that Reuters was toadying to NZRFU back in 2008 to inflate viewer figures from the 2007 RWC?

Heh, not sure that handball counts. Also, an estimate of potential cumulative viewers is very different from actual cumulative viewers.

Suspect that, like some other sports, they were giving an aggressive positive spin to viewer numbers.

Even if they were spinning it aggressively, even if they were spinning it by…

Suspect that, like some other sports, they were giving an aggressive positive spin to viewer numbers.

I’ll be staggered if the UEFA Euro Champs aren’t bigger than the RWC.

Be staggered, then.

Estimate for the last UEFA season was two billion cumulative viewers.

Compared with the 2007 RWC's cumulative audience of three billion viewers.

It's also global marketing for our national businesses including tourism, so there's logic in govt involvement in such large events.

Absolutely. I have no problem with "NZ Inc" putting money into events such as the RWC, on the grounds that it's advertising that couldn't be bought for any price. However,…

I’ll be staggered if the UEFA Euro Champs aren’t bigger than the RWC

Sitting down? Don't have figures to hand, but they exist.

It stuns a lot of people that the RWC is the third-most watched sporting event in the world, after FIFA WC and the summer Olympics.

Are there any published figures that actually back that up?

I’ll be staggered if the UEFA Euro Champs aren’t bigger than the RWC.

Local governments get nadda
Rates from busineses

And those rates are related to income how, exactly? The rates take increases relative to customer numbers from a one-off event how, exactly?

Local governments get nadda

Rates from businesses

Admittedly it's a bigger event

I wouldn't count on it – and in tv audience terms, most certainly not.

In terms of impact on a single city, it absolutely is. You're right about global audience, though. It stuns a lot of people that the RWC is the third-most watched sporting…

Admittedly it's a bigger event

I wouldn't count on it – and in tv audience terms, most certainly not.

From memory, Auckland had a good chance to build a new stadium in a much better location than in the middle of the suburbs, which could

You mean the waterfront stadium idea? That was going to leave no change from a billion dollars (yes, with a b), and given that…

Nothing? Im guessing the gain of nothing is the same reason Auckland & Dunedin are keen to get the 7s into town as well. Of course the city gains something when a few extra thousand people turn up for the weekend.

Except that the capacity of Eden Park is being increased…

They built a train to the airport,

We could do that...
Tui Moment.

Second thoughts. Building a Train all the way to the Airport, would still require walking, a railway would be better.

I'll get my coat.

when it all goes pear-shaped

I know what you mean Sacha, I really should get some exercise.

The official fruit of the Republic o Devonport

I thought that was Craig.
;-)
OK Craig, free punch.

(Exception: that whining prick Stephen Jones.)

Who, incidentally, was a perfect gentlemen out on the town here in 2005 even when dealing with a lot of banter (not all of it good natured) from the locals.

He must become that other person when he gets back to hotel room at…

How about a Seasonal Worker Programme for Samoans, Tongans, & Fijians to see the RWC up close?

before we do it with tourists, we might want to do it with some of the locals

Quite. We already have enough homegrown munters.

I'm confident the RWC planning is being handled very well, having met some of the imported experts hired for the job. They have previously worked on…

What does need to happen is some very careful thought about the kind of "disaster management" planning that can deal with these large groups and educate/direct them quickly and efficiently on the day before they become a problem.

I'd suggest that before we do it with tourists, we might want…

I do find this negativity about visitors to our country odd.

I wouldn't take it all too seriously. It's not so much that there are "dirty drunken foreign people" wandering around that's a concern as that there will be a lot of people who aren't local (so are in holiday…

when it all goes pear-shaped

The official fruit of the Republic o Devonport

mmmm.... pear....

I'm no expert on cruise ships, but isn't the advantage of them that you can sleep on board? There's a steady flow of them visiting Dunedin this month, and they just come into the tourist sites during the day and then go back to the boat at night.

That was…

when it all goes pear-shaped

The official fruit of the Republic o Devonport

Let's not get carried away, for heaven's sake. We're not talking about football thugs here. The British rugby fans who followed the Lions tour here four years ago were in general perfectly decent people who looked to get on with the locals.

(Exception: that whining prick Stephen Jones.)

I do…

Must you be such a grinch about it?

Only about the money – just strikes me as typical dishonestly-pitched corporate welfare at everyone's expense.

I'm certainly up for a buzz in our town though. Especially if funds get channeled into supporting local performers and hosts.

The problem with Auckland is that the politicians are the Rich

Well, if you're dumb enough to leave me in charge, there's no point moaning when it all goes pear-shaped.

Or did you mean Rich of Obs?

I'm not remotely interested in yachting, but the America's Cup hoo-ha made for a great, vital time in Auckland. It was, y'know, fun having a major event in the city.

I didn't like it. On the other hand, the Commonwealth Games, way back when, were quite fun. Mainly because I…

(And if anybody needs me at the time, I plan to be drunk but in Christchurch, so North Islanders need not fear.)

I'm quite frightened at the prospect of the CBD overflowing with drunken English tourists...

A cost-effective way of dealing with that would be to import a busload of Sardinians. They have a proven track record when it comes to that particular problem.

Let's not get carried away, for heaven's…

I'm quite frightened at the prospect of the CBD overflowing with drunken English tourists...

A cost-effective way of dealing with that would be to import a busload of Sardinians. They have a proven track record when it comes to that particular problem.

Private businesses certainly gain something. Those citizens uninterested in attending or carousing, not so much.

Gawd. Must you be such a grinch about it?

I'm not remotely interested in yachting, but the America's Cup hoo-ha made for a great, vital time in Auckland. It was, y'know, fun having a major…

The America's Cup festivities proved that the Viaduct site comfortably accommodates huge crowds. Additionally, anyone thinking that the precinct cannot comfortably host very large crowds in party mode could not have attended the recent Melbourne Cup festivities.

For that event, the Viaduct Basin hosted thousands…

Of course the city gains something when a few extra thousand people turn up for the weekend.

Private businesses certainly gain something. Those citizens uninterested in attending or carousing, not so much.

Oh, except a larger rates or rent bill.

As people have mentioned previously, it's not going to be that different to an existing match.

I'm not sure about that, Eden Park's current capacity is 47,500, the World Cup capacity is supposed to be 60,000 – so that's a pretty decent jump in numbers just there.

When you figure…

Eden Park is private property, not a council facility, so whatever public money goes into it gains the city nothing.

Nothing? Im guessing the gain of nothing is the same reason Auckland & Dunedin are keen to get the 7s into town as well. Of course the city gains something when…

I have a new post

Damn I wish I'd read that before that last comment – might cross post if relevant.

but they don't have to put up with having their city thrown into chaos for a month

I believe they will – pool games and competing teams are dispersed around the country so we all share the joy.

Worth noting that Michael Barnett is also the deputy chair of the…

The appearance to me (which is certainly unfair of me) is that everybody else is stumping up cash and having a good shake at getting this thing done, but the Auckland lot aren't.

Oh, you mean like the tens-of-millions that Auckland is spending on upgrading roads and public transport facilities…

Has anyone ever been to Twickenham? 82,000 capacity, and to get to the station you walk several blocks through residential…

but the Auckland lot aren't.

Not needed

Wait, you want us to pay for our stadia, and all of yours too? That didn't seem a bit greedy when you typed it?

Its probably ungracious of me I know, but this is the kind of sentiment I have about the whole mess.

The appearance to me (which is…

Just can't imagine what anyone was thinking applying the term to an unruly bunch of drunk sports fans.

Inglorious BusTurds, then?

We need to have a dedicated bus lane AND trains AND close the Kingsland Strip AND a walking bus to move people in an efficient way.

Like any other game at Eden Park. They close Sandringham Road at the moment when a game is…

Kingsland station can only take one train every five minutes and I'll believe that frequency when I see it.

I second being rather skeptical about the dent our rail system will make in the crowd moving problem.

And I second an ongoing disappointment that we never got it together to…

If this is incorrect please state where in the world a waterfront stadium works as public space on the waterfront.

The new stadium in Dunedin is supposed to fulfil this, in theory at least.

RWC was bid for by the country, not by any region. Eden Park isn't even owned…

If this is incorrect please state where in the world a waterfront stadium works as public space on the waterfront.

PNC Park, in Pittsburgh is home to the Pittsburgh Pirates. They're the worst team in baseball and have the best staduim. It was built on the North Side of the Allegheny…

Trouble is that this very attitude cost us the V8's to name but one thing "We" didn't want to pay for.

Whether or not ratepayers wanted to pay for it, it was at least Auckland councils that put in the bid. Also, the objection, as has been pointed out, was…

Kingsland station can only take one train every five minutes

Two, if the plans to run trains in the same direction on both sides of the track come to fruition. Shut the Western Line west of Kingsland and send duplicate services to Kingsland on both the "inbound" and "outbound" tracks…

Good grief.

Kingsland station can only take one train every five minutes and I'll believe that frequency when…

The waterfront is generally accepted as a great aspect for viewing along with experiencing, walking, swimming etc.

If I was wanting to view, experience, walk or swim, Auckland's waterfront is the last place I'd be doing that.
Da Cake tin in Wellington is close to the water, well closeish, and…

How hard is it for architects and planners to grasp that that sort of residential building doesn't bring life to a space, it kills it?

Absolutely. It's like: architects, please familarize yourselves with the tort of private nuisance. This is why your groovy plans for "mixed spaces" will always fail.…

The waterfront is generally accepted as a great aspect for viewing along with experiencing, walking, swimming etc.

A stadium is inward looking and so totally at opposites (and hopefully at opposed…

You are welcome to have them back! I have never seen the point of such motorsports--except as a means of further reducing dwindling natural resources , and annoying the locals!

As far as I'm concerned Aussie motorsports jumped the shark after the Godzilla GTR was outlawed after the 1992-93 season.…

Know about the school usage and almost got to meet the dude who invented it when he came over again last year. Simple and magnificent concept from a visionary traffic planner, well implemented here.…

I don't know where the "walking bus" term came from (never seen it elsewhere).

You haven't sent kids to primary school. The primaries round here run a safe walk-to-school programme where kids can join up with a walking group let by a couple of mums in flouro vests — a…

kiwiboomers is more about interesting writing and wry…

As local niche sites, what do you make of Grownups compared with Kiwiboomers

Call me ambivalent about the whole notion of kiwiboomers ('kiwibivalent'?), but I do have a lot of time for Paul Smith, who puts the site together. There is something called Grownups? I am not sure whether I…

this very attitude cost us the V8's

You are welcome to have them back! I have never seen the point of such motorsports--except as a means of further reducing dwindling natural resources , and annoying the locals!

As a complete aside (and if anyone is interested), my rather gushy review…

walking bus" (tell me they are not serious)

Well, major works from Kingsland Train Station to Eden Park. 4 houses have gone to make room for the walkway, and one can get from Britomart to there. So Party Central to train to kingsland and a 4 minute walk across to…

Someone…

this very attitude cost us the V8's

That one was a matter of consent rather than keenness or funding, I was briefed at the time (other stories welcome).

Detailed preparations did not find a way to avoid shutting down a central and unduplicable part of the road network for a…

Wellington's council, for all its faults, has gotten it right far more often than its Auckland counterpart

Fortunately for Wellington, they don't have John Key and John Banks and Rodney Hide living there. The Eastie Boys.

All this in-secret back-room spending on Megatropolis' tab

And about half the new city's spending – on transport – is currently proposed to be kept secret from the public if significant pressure is not applied now for Nact cronies to get their hand out of the cookie jar.

Hence the…

Things will likely get more interesting if Len Brown takes the AKL mayoralty and does a Ken Livingstone in the Beehive's direction. Would the Sheriff of Epsom do…

Imagine the parched fans after drinking their way up Queen St and K Rd, meeting the desert of caryards and small industry along Gt North Rd and Bond St. I'd be applying for a bar license along that stretch..

You are not the only one saying such things.

This city needs a long-term plan for its waterfront, not a fairground for some sport tourists.

On ya.

govt dictates change, but Aucklanders get to pay for it

Auckland's paying for a hell of a lot at the moment. Like doing up Eden Park, if McCully has anything to do with it. As I put it to a friend, fuck McCully and fuck Central Government. Auckland's not going to…

The present plans rely heavily on a walking-bus operation along Great North Road and over Bond Street. That's a hell of a long way to be walking without shelter if the skies open the way they sometimes do in September.

Imagine the parched fans after drinking their way up Queen…

millions of dollars (really is that now) being spent every month by the ATA – debt that will be loaded onto the Auckland ratepayers.

Yes, been going on silently since day one – govt dictates change, but Aucklanders get to pay for it. Costs for similar exercises overseas are 9…

if the city is to profit from the RWC it should go to the existing businesses

That's what I was trying to get at really. They've also been paying extra rates to do up the CBD.

Night markets now out for tender, possibly capitalising on new shared space streetscape developments.

I'm a rugby fan. I wanted the stadium built in the waterfront. But I'm not wild about having an unelected…

What – a kick-around at Christmas, that sort of thing?

Historical precedent tells us it will end in tears when Graham Henry threatens to have the participants shot. Especially the ones with the soccer ball.

don't forget the 35-50 million dollar bill for IT systems for Day 1 which, several ministers were told, won't actually deliver much....they weren't happy! (And that is just the cost of the IT…

That's the only kind they sell in Devonport now that it's full of snooty drunken Poms and South Africans. Andre will back me up on this.

This man knows his coarse-yet-humorous stereotypes. Trust him. Preferably with your money.

Sofie, alot of the problem was no double glazing and sound proofing of inner city apartments. Now substandard, but just inside at the time of building.

People's Independent Republic of Devonport

I have been thinking about sneaking out one moonless night and building some sort of 'iron curtain' across the peninsular somewhere around narrowneck to keep the plebs out, especially at weekends. Stick a tollgate on Lake road and it'll more than pay for itself.

I'm…

Or even just a place with really big lawns and trees.

My Dad submitted a plan to rejuvenate the Quay area to the Council way back in the day of Les Mills. He put trees and seating and grass onto the waterfront. no one else had. We got The Viaduct.

Tank farm plans too..

Quite. It happens every fucking time.

How hard is it for architects and planners to grasp that that sort of residential building doesn't bring life to a space, it kills it?

Imagine if there was a place where, say, everything — not just bars, but some…

the folly of surrounding new public spaces with expensive accommodation.

Tank farm plans too..

the only kind they sell in Devonport

Pickled in fine malts could be welcome

Love the idea of diverting funds into the staging of music, events and hospitality for fans. Surrounding retailers might not like the free barbie idea much though.

Which is where the idea of using the Viaduct falls down a bit.

Also, the wealthy apartment owners have made the "public" areas…

dressed with finest mongolian truffle-hog droppings or somesuch.

That's the only kind they sell in Devonport now that it's full of snooty drunken Poms and South Africans. Andre will back me up on this.

Surrounding retailers might not like the free barbie idea much though.

For the plebs darlin'!Those who normally take up the whole of the waterfront with the over inflated food prices and people to match won't be bothered by the plebs.E.g. Mission Bay has no problem when there is a bit…

Surrounding retailers might not like the free barbie idea much though.

If they can't compete with a free sausage, then they're not very good then, are they?

After all ain't it about who you blow? Let's just do it!

I'm sure Rodney Hide will admire your spirit :)

Love the idea of diverting funds into the staging of music, events and hospitality for fans. Surrounding…

even, in rare occasions, have friendly get togethers.

What – a kick-around at Christmas, that sort of thing?

The rest of Aucklanders are witches, apparently.

Or ducks.

But anyway, as a proud citizen of the People's Independent Republic of Devonport, I'm more worried about the deluge of snooty, drunken South Africans and Englishfolk who will be travelling across via ferry to swarm my lovely subu...on second thoughts, too…

Dude, we do that every weekend up here. Only a handful of people die.

The rest of Aucklanders are witches, apparently.

Fuck it. If we're going to have a "Party Central", we might as well just get lots of barbeques and kegs and hand out free booze. $23 million buys a lot of beer and sausages.
Actually, I'm only half joking about that – having a very large barbeque going every…

OK – I have to ask the dumb question:

Haven't you seen all the kids that leap off wharves all over the country. Not everyone drinks y'know, some of us are sensible (cough). Also, it's not far to the bottom. :)

OK – I have to ask the dumb question: does no one else question the sanity of cramming a whole lot of rowdy drunken people out onto a wharf in the dark?

Dude, we do that every weekend up here. Only a handful of people die.

Think you could go a long way with some marquis, temporary bars (think the heinekin bar from Highlife matakana,jagermeister bus etc) some PA systems, etc.

Yeah imagine the parties we could have!

A former gulag on Novaya Zemlya would seem to be an…

Think you could go a long way with some marquis,

The Marquis de Sade, in particular, will let you go a very long way...

Think you could go a long way with some marquis, temporary bars (think the heinekin…

It is also an extremely long way to walk on a full bladder.

I dont see any problem... current Eden Park patrons who have over-imbibed already take to emptying their bladders on any nearby fence, letter-box or doorway...

Why should international visitors refrain if it's good enough for the locals?

I took a long, hard, look at them last time I came back from Waiheke. Good God they are an eyesore.

Lucky that some developers built a few enormous concrete turds with orange piss-streaks down their sides right behind them. Helps distract the eye, innit?

The present plans rely heavily on a walking-bus operation along Great North Road and over Bond Street. That's a hell of a long way to be walking without shelter if the skies open the way they sometimes do in September.

It is also an extremely long way to walk on…

To get everyone from Eden Park to the waterfront I'm thinking we need a monorail.

Can we have a high speed underground travellator?

Or perhaps, I know I'm being completely outrageous here, an inner city rail loop?

Actually, I'm only half joking about that – having a very large barbeque going every…

We need to ensure that Fort St and K Road will be stops on the Walking Bus route.

I can just see the hawkers for all the brothels snatching up some of those dayglo yellow vests and directing hordes of confused tourists into "pitstops".

Besides, doesn't buyer's remorse usually kick in after someone's paid for something?

The only sensible thing I've ever done is tell my bank (over and over) that I don't want a credit card, and if they'd please stop increasing my overdraft beyond a limit I can rationally service that would…

...looking for a good time

Fort St and K Rd are the traditional venues for that kind of thing, surely?

Even the most expensive of the plans I've seen is only mediocre, not inspiring. There is no way this development should be dependent on…

Future generations will struggle to understand why we knocked down the theatres but kept the sheds.

sorry not to add anything constructive…