Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: A dramatic and unremarkable decision

chris

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:00:29 +1300

opiates certainly are and just need to be prescribed by a doctor and signed out the controlled drugs cupboard.

Or you just nip out to garden, pick some of the seed pods off your (legal to grow) Papaver somniferum, illegally cut them open and squeeze out the sap, dry that…

B Jones

Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:34:44 +1200

From today's news:

"Alex grew up on homeopathic remedies and Rose knew he would not respond to conventional medication...After a month in the hospital, Rose applied for legal guardianship over Alex so she could refuse some of the medical treatments."

To me that article reframes the issue – from the…

Alfie

Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:03:44 +1200

Today's Herald editorial: Dunne's assurances on cannabis mean little
Mr Dunne was keen to stress that his approval should not be construed as setting a wider precedent. But how can it not be? What will happen if there are further cases where this or another untested cannabis-derived medication represents a final…

Alfie

Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:56:27 +1200

[Update: I should have refreshed this thread before posting – Russell beat me to it]

Here's a good news CBD story out of Australia.

Katelyn Lambert, a little girl suffering from Dravet Syndrome was having a seizure every 15 seconds. Her parents heard about American girl Charlotte Figi — she…

Toni-Marie Matich

Sat, 13 Jun 2015 11:49:40 +1200

And now this from Dunne in NZ Doctors......sigh

While I am speaking about drugs, let me make two additional comments. The National Drug Policy is currently being reviewed and I am expecting to release the revised policy shortly.

It will largely build on what is already in place, and will…

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Jun 2015 11:14:48 +1200

Here's how the Medicines Act allows for consent for unapproved medicines, unapproved indications for approved medicines, etc.

It's actually quite permissive. The precedent here is getting past the cannabis bugaboo, not the consent for an unapproved medicine. That's not uncommon.

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Jun 2015 10:20:04 +1200

Well, this is pretty big. A $34 million grant to the University of Sydney for cannabinoid research.

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Jun 2015 10:04:40 +1200

The Herald's editorial this morning. I can't really work out what's going on here, but it seems angry. Is this voicing a National Party swipe at Dunne? I can't tell.

Understandably enough, the Renton family have been doing all they can to get the best possible treatment for their teenage…

Russell Brown

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 17:54:59 +1200

There are some interesting ethical issues with interventions for people in a coma. Sometimes they can give retrospective consent after they recover. So it is not just the treatment that is controversial, but also the fact that the patient is not competent to consent.

The irony in this case is…

Angela Hart

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 17:22:31 +1200

It would be nice if they would also consider what constitutes genuine informed consent. I have been in the situation where my daughter was seriously unwell such that she was not thinking straight and was unable to retain what she was told, in a hospital HDU. She was taken to…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:16:08 +1200

This is the sort of topic…

Mike O'Connell

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:42:13 +1200

Some positive news through this morning – Alex has opened his eyes and is responding to voices! The Elixinol is supposed to be arriving today too.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/69333788/Teenager-in-coma-opens-eyes-responds-to-voices

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:49:37 +1200

Thank you Kay. I had read about the surgery somewhere and know that all options would be considered. It will be fantastic if Alex has some help from Elixinol though. I would suggest now ,if that is not helpful, his family could seek other derivatives from Dunne.

Russell Brown

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:22:18 +1200

My poor old great-aunt that recently died of cancer used for the first time in her life to help get through the shocking pain. It seemed a bit silly that she had to go through all the bullshit of making a connection, surreptitiously hiding her baggies and toking it up…

Russell Brown

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:15:29 +1200

I hope that helps with your question.

Thanks for that, Kay.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:09:49 +1200

And if a doctor prescribed ‘cannabis’ to someone when they where in a comma…

Well, better that than in the colon..

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:07:56 +1200

Here's one for Steven Crawford to ponder.

Kay

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:05:14 +1200

Hi Sofie, sorry I'm a bit late in on this thread. Re your question about them being able to operate to remove the part of the brain that's causing his seizures:
Surgery is only an option for a very small group of people with uncontrolled epilepsy. The seizures have to…

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 21:31:53 +1200

. I believe that people should be alowed access to cannabis for medicinal use.

Me too, there's an even stronger argument for that than the already very strong argument that cannabis should be allowed for non-medicinal use. It's already being used in a massive way in this country, and those…

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 18:26:24 +1200

Because, bad communication about the science.
Agreed.

I believe access to medical cannabis would benefit a lot of people — those who suffer from crohn's disease, glaucoma, etc. For that reason I can't help but see Dunne's decision having a positive influence on public perception towards medical MJ in general.

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 17:41:08 +1200

Dunne Speaks
I think it would been more helpful if he hadn't, tbh.
He appears to make his view on those who call for decriminalisation pretty clear... they're best ignored.
Some have hailed this week’s decision as the start of a “sensible” discussion of drug policy. I am deeply suspicious…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:50:39 +1200

He actually didn't need to go charging around with a firehose.

But, he's a politician.

Russell Brown

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:44:33 +1200

Dunne Speaks

I think it would been more helpful if he hadn't, tbh.

He actually didn't need to go charging around with a firehose.

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:25:07 +1200

Why do you think it’s politically difficult for pollititions to allow the use of CBD as a medication?
As cannabis has a successful 5,000 year history as a medication, I'd have to say our politicians are more influenced by an outdated US policy designed to halt the flow of Mexicans…

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 15:27:40 +1200

Yes but what if we started talking about doctors boiling up opium plants as medication, rather than calling what It is – carefully prescribing morphine and codeine in accurate dosages?
Say what? Wait for big pharma to produce a branded product without the c-word in the name? I suspect I'm…

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:35:59 +1200

While medical use should not be confused with recreational, I think the healing plant involved deserves some credit.

You can rebrand venison as cervena, but inside it's still Bambi.

Ross Bell

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:33:41 +1200

Dunne Speaks

Toni-Marie Matich

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:13:11 +1200

I think there are some key elements which the wider population are forgetting in supporting Medical Cannabis, a couple of those are that it should be treated like any pharamceutical, it isnt a 1 product (such as sativex) could benefit any one condition, and yes research has been done to…

Steve Curtis

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 13:13:20 +1200

"Let’s grow up about this. And when we’ve grown up, perhaps we can talk like grown-ups "

He says, dripping with paternalism, mixed with some I know it all and then inhaled with a glint in your eye.

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 13:03:57 +1200

Medications which are extracted from cannabis are definitly not cannabis.
Would that be Pedantic with a capital P Steven? Seriously?

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 12:05:29 +1200

Off topic but slightly on, Isn't it possible to operate and remove the part affected that causes the seizures. The bit upthread also about Docs being concerned he might awaken from his coma slightly high sounds like a pathetic excuse. I woke from my coma and was permanently medicated on…

Alfie

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 11:26:35 +1200

Thanks for a sensible post on this topic Russell. As usual.

It's ironic that while we have America to thank (blame) for our current cannabis laws, attitudes change and 41 US states now permit the use of medical marijuana. But it's still a banned substance in NZ.

I realise that…

Jeremy Andrew

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:56:34 +1200

Really? They have it set up at the Grey Lynn Countdown so that alcohol-free beer doesn’t trigger the needs-approval flag.

I can't even buy a home-brew kit in Countdown without ID here in Hamilton. But I could buy sugar, yeast and malt extract...

Mark Hadfield

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:51:43 +1200

My father-in-law suffered from narcolepsy and took amphetamines under prescription for most of his 80 years. This despite the close relationship between the drugs he took and P. So why the fuss about cannabis products?

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:44:47 +1200

Legal access is treated like an application to use heroin

I'm not sure if heroin is licensed here for severe pain, but similar opiates certainly are and just need to be prescribed by a doctor and signed out the controlled drugs cupboard.

Russell Brown

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:33:26 +1200

Like when I buy alcohol free beer at the supermarket. I need the be eighteen to get past the wall of ignorance about not only what part of the product is dangerous, but also the part that’s illegal to sell.

Really? They have it set up at the Grey Lynn…

Russell Brown

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:23:20 +1200

Some useful comment from Chris Fowlie (aka the marijuana activist who doesn’t make things worse):

CBD is already listed in the Medicines Act and so you’d think it would be easy to prescribe. Non-medical use of CBD is not illegal, so anyone can order it online and import it without…

George Darroch

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 09:48:49 +1200

I’m not sure the cannabis reform people protesting outside the hospital and ministry were of much help (on this case or any other TBH).

They never are. Their cause would be furthered if they all stayed home and took hits from the bong.

Russell Brown

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 07:59:04 +1200

Foirtunately I have yet to see an anxious stoner (though I know paranoia is an oft-described effect).

The most common symptoms in recreational marijuana ED presentations are panic and tachycardia.

The anti-anxiety component is the CBD, which, as I noted, is present in a lower ratio than it used to…

Russell Brown

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 07:53:07 +1200

Basically, the two treatments are for two totally different types of MS issues and one is not a substitute for another.

But yeah, the more Pharmac-funded treatment options that are available to people with MS, the better.

Ah. Thanks for that, Robyn.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 01:01:49 +1200

Again, if anyone hasn't seen it yet, Druglawed has one more showing at the Roxy in Wellington this Saturday morning.

Robyn Gallagher

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 23:23:40 +1200

It seems that Novartis, the licensed distributor for this part of the world, would rather tout its own multiple sclerosis drug.

FYI, for people with MS, cannabis is used for the treatment of neuropathic pain and/or spasticity. Novartis' drug (Fingolimod) is a disease-modifying drug which reduces the incidences of relapses…

Sacha

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 23:05:52 +1200

Foirtunately I have yet to see an anxious stoner (though I know paranoia is an oft-described effect).

Sacha

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 23:02:59 +1200

and the anti-nausea and appetite-promoting properties seem well-supported too.

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 21:26:13 +1200

That’s reassuringly grown-up behaviour. Cheers.

My impression is that this may become a disability policy issue beyond MS. There are quite good signs for CBD as a treatment for anxiety disorders. Can you imagine how much better that would be that for be for people on the autism spectrum than…

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 21:21:12 +1200

No comment on the PM’s comments.

They did a lot motivate me to write this post, though. So there’s that.

Sacha

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:55:44 +1200

He talked a lot to other govt folks about medical canabis at a recent UN meeting. And has been very open to meeting patient groups back home

That's reassuringly grown-up behaviour. Cheers.

Ross Bell

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:40:31 +1200

Perfect summary of the situation, as usual, Russell.

I think what this case highlighted is that our Medicines Act can work really well, in that the minister has the ability to make these decisions.

It also shows that, fundamentally, we don't need to change our drug laws to allow medical…

Katharine Moody

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:37:33 +1200

Big prayers go out in the hope that it will stop Alex's seizures. And I couldn't agree with you more – I simply cannot imagine what I would have done as his mother – the anguish, stress and frustration would be enormous.

Public Address

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:37:33 +1200

Discussion from blog post.