Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: 2014: The Meth Election

Shulgin

Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:22:33 +1300

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YDeVay_QbA

such a well produced video...shine tv does the narrative and..even a year after the M and C saatchi campaign for the NZP....so articulate...eight minute video where the police give you every detail of the beat....in uniform...in broad day light...demons...otis frizzell...stencils...words...pray...unlimited church...wow...look at the werk the NZP do....just the best…

Shulgin

Sat, 25 Oct 2014 01:23:48 +1300

yes,,exactly you had to be there.....hard news guy can't use a microphone in front of an audience of old folks...what,,,wtf...speak up...can't hear you in third row....do I have a problem with D I MIlls....I do...cause actually we/all pay his salary and benefits...but i have seen the inspectors spreadsheets...like old socks..and…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:30:08 +1300

WTF? Does that post make any sense to anyone? Or am I just having a slow day?

I guess, you had to be there, along with a perception that the person is thinking they are being rather cryptic. Shulgin has an issue with detective Mills, happens to bring him in…

Alfie

Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:01:28 +1300

WTF? Does that post make any sense to anyone? Or am I just having a slow day?

Shulgin

Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:33:19 +1300

kinda... finding a space in some old postings....thank you...mr brown.. for showing up at the Owen Glenn event last night for the Fabians...and that is obviously mixed..on purpose...the gasp around the room==== when someone said they "didn't vote"...good lorde...a bit of trouble with the microphone...but this is the bubble--- in…

stephen clover

Tue, 16 Sept 2014 11:00:51 +1200

Ahh… but the “Big Norton” was called ‘Cortex’ and didn’t get off the ground, we’re told. Key even declassified documents to prove that.

CORTEX was green-lighted only recently, in July 2014. Which is probably why it wasn’t able to protect Spark last weekend.

SteveH

Tue, 16 Sept 2014 10:56:39 +1200

Regarding tapping the cable – the PM says “We can categorically state that there is no such programme operating in New Zealand, and any claims that there is are utterly wrong.”

But again he seems to be talking about something else. He seems to be saying they haven’t cut the…

Alfie

Tue, 16 Sept 2014 10:42:24 +1200

Key is very glib about that, someone should ask him why this super web vigilance system couldn't stop the Spark*DNS attack – what are we paying for ...the goats in the machine?

Ahh... but the "Big Norton" was called 'Cortex' and didn't get off the ground, we're told. Key even…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 16 Sept 2014 08:57:25 +1200

debuggers... are in de system
the whole super-norton-anti-virus thing...
Key is very glib about that, someone should ask him why this super web vigilance system couldn't stop the Spark*DNS attack – what are we paying for ...the goats in the machine?

Paul Campbell

Tue, 16 Sept 2014 06:27:29 +1200

There will be no ‘mass surveillance’, and data will be accessed by GCSB only with the consent of owners of relevant networks or systems.

So if my ISP says yes I can be spied on – more importantly if my ISP buys in to the whole super-norton-anti-virus thing my data…

stephen clover

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 23:19:48 +1200

Yeah, that was my reaction too. What exactly does this disprove?

What it shows: there was a discussion at Cabinet level (SEC Min (12) 4/1, 3 April 2012) to enhance the activity of the National Cyber Security Center which’d been earlier established within GCSB to detect and “address advanced and…

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 22:53:23 +1200

Well, and there was a live camera stream of the crowd. I noticed Russell hadn’t shaved, but then that’s part of his metadata anyway.

Yup, doesn't even shave for Media Take.

Rich Lock

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 22:32:12 +1200

something something private servers....? I can't remember the details as it was a few years back, but that point was specifically addressed.

kiwicmc

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 22:30:12 +1200

Regarding tapping the cable – the PM says "We can categorically state that there is no such programme operating in New Zealand, and any claims that there is are utterly wrong." – yeah, but there's two ends to a cable eh?

SteveH

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 22:01:43 +1200

Just reading the declassified documents from Cabinet – I’m struggling to see how these disprove that Snowden’s allegations that mass surveillance of NZ internet communications is happening.
Someone on Twitter rightly called it the Wookie Defence. It's a disingenuous straw man. Use the truth about something you could plausibly conflate…

BenWilson

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:51:54 +1200

LOL, cause all the other people playing the game aren't going to find it really suss to hear a couple of jihadis planning to blow up a train or something?

Rich Lock

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:47:09 +1200

one can only presume they filter out all the minecraft traffic from our house

There was a story a year or two back about terrorists/jihadis/whatever using in-game chatroom to exchange information as they thought it was probably not going to be monitored and/or far more difficult to track.

So don't…

Dismal Soyanz

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:25:40 +1200

The papers are merely a smokescreen from an increasingly desperate government.

Yeah, that was my reaction too. What exactly does this disprove?

BenWilson

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:21:20 +1200

Well, and there was a live camera stream of the crowd. I noticed Russell hadn’t shaved, but then that’s part of his metadata anyway.

kiwicmc

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:17:40 +1200

I must admit when I first read that post on /. my first thought was – that's so freaking cool... but I like the GPS integration idea. Already been in place for many years of course with location databases within Telco cell management s/w

Sam F

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:15:48 +1200

Very happily cast my special vote on a beautiful Monday afternoon in Beijing. A pleasure, a privilege (certainly in context), and hopefully a teeny tiny push on the tiller in the correct direction...

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 21:04:48 +1200

...every smartphone, tablet and computer — is to be made visible. Such a map...
'They' willl be busy flensing that pod of information that surfaced tonight in Auckland.
What with accurate GPS and triangulation 'they' could identify, seat by seat who was where, if they hadn't already accessed any seat…

kiwicmc

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 20:56:51 +1200

"According to top-secret documents from the NSA and the British agency GCHQ, the intelligence agencies are seeking to map the entire Internet
Furthermore, every single end device that is connected to the Internet somewhere in the world — every smartphone, tablet and computer — is to be made visible. Such…

Alfie

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 20:55:00 +1200

You're right. The papers relate to something called Cortex which appears to be some sort of anti-malware / cyber-attack detection or prevention software. There's nothing about tapping into the Southern Cross cable or the mass surveillance which resulted.

The papers are merely a smokescreen from an increasingly desperate government.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 20:53:12 +1200

It's Official
John Key Declasse-fies everything...

just one application,
wave, and walk away...

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 20:28:29 +1200

I'm struggling to see how these disprove that Snowden's allegations that mass surveillance of NZ internet communications is happening.

It's a squirrel.

kiwicmc

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 20:04:14 +1200

Just reading the declassified documents from Cabinet – I'm struggling to see how these disprove that Snowden's allegations that mass surveillance of NZ internet communications is happening. Project CORTEX appears to be pretty much how Key dumbs it down by describing it as a "Norton Anti-Virus" for networks attached to…

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 17:31:32 +1200

OK, now it’s been 20 mins…I need a redose….might have to head to the town hall.

I would be if I was in Auckland. Watch out for stray Corkerys ;-)

BenWilson

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 17:07:17 +1200

OK, now it's been 20 mins...I need a redose....might have to head to the town hall.

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 16:42:49 +1200

And we're off!

NEW ZEALAND SPY AGENCY LAUNCHED MASS SURVEILLANCE PROJECT WHILE PUBLICLY DENYING IT
BY GLENN GREENWALD AND RYAN GALLAGHER

Bart Janssen

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 16:19:03 +1200

the current situation with Slater’s court action is not sufficient to explain the silence

That was my impression as well.

I'm trying really hard to hope that someone in the media who has those documents has a moral compass.

Angela Hart

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 15:34:00 +1200

the current situation with Slater's court action is not sufficient to explain the silence. The decision permits publication of non personal information.

James George

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 15:29:45 +1200

NZ media have been backing off at the mere smell of a lawyer's dusty briefs since the first kawhai got wrapped in paper and ink, but only sometimes.

If one were to compare the alacrity with which Philip Fields was pursued by both print and broadcast media, despite Fields threatening…

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 15:18:31 +1200

Slater’s court action is probably the ostensible reason.

yup

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 15:02:04 +1200

There really does seem to be a whole story about Jason Ede that is gone completely missing.

Just like Ede himself ;-)

Sacha

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 15:00:11 +1200

I wonder exactly who is sitting on the rest of the whaledumps?

the media outlets being sued in Slater's name, that's who.

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:59:53 +1200

yes, I hope he dispersed the material widely enough that it will be acted on. Can’t understand the delay, unless there wasn’t much left.

Slater's court action is probably the ostensible reason.

Sacha

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:58:32 +1200

Hager mentioned other non-personal material he had seen but left with Rawshark for other journos to get. This included the Hotchin material. It seems unlikely that there wouldn't be other angles and more detail than Hager could fit in his book.

As mentioned previously, our craven media seem cowed into…

CJM

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:57:10 +1200

Brilliant!

Sacha

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:54:55 +1200

there are more than two parties in the election, even for media determined to report on personalities rather than other factors like policy or coalition prospects.

Steve Barnes

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:50:10 +1200

When I write about Sonny Bill Williams, I can be certain I will receive at least double the replies as to an article on Richie McCaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-PhBryFuIM
I can see why, this guy has heaps on that performing parrot Richie the Macaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypOtR4Lgsfc
Oh, didn’t I read your post properly?…

st ephen

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:42:23 +1200

I thought the point was that Hager's book used all the "political" material obtained from Slater's computer, and he chose not to use personal stuff that wasn't strictly relevant. I don't understand why people think the Whaledump material passed on to journos is going to provide the basis for new…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:39:35 +1200

sadly sullied by the fact that John Key simply makes far more enticing readership appeal than Cunliffe.

Ha a ha ha ha ha ha ….. Have you read his book? Didn’t sell anywhere near as many copies as Hager’s and I think that says something, not sure what but I…

Chris Waugh

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:11:30 +1200

Meanwhile, in Christchurch......, according to APNZ's Kurt Bayer.

Kumara Republic

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:03:14 +1200

If we accept that Rawshark gave the remaining info to “journos”, then we have to assume that somebody has probably decided to can it. I wonder exactly who is sitting on the rest of the whaledumps?

I sure as fuck hope that the journos with the remaining Whaledumps haven't gotten…

Danielle

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 14:00:22 +1200

If there is one thing I have learned from my mere 18 years on the internet, it is this: "you idiots are talking about the wrong thing" discussions don't tend to go very well.

Rob Stowell

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:59:13 +1200

Rawshark gave the remaining info to “journos”
Wikileaks would have been better (but probably meant too much work redacting the personal stuff)

Alfie

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:52:57 +1200

There really does seem to be a whole story about Jason Ede that is gone completely missing.
Agreed. If we accept that Rawshark gave the remaining info to "journos", then we have to assume that somebody has probably decided to can it. I wonder exactly who is sitting on the…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:46:59 +1200

So has there been any sign from the journalists that Rawshark gave his last files to? There really does seem to be a whole story about Jason Ede that is gone completely missing.

Chris Waugh

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:44:39 +1200

Unfair I accept, Irresponsible even? Maybe.

No. Childish. With Key, Cunliffe, et al, we're not talking anything as simple and meaningless as the All Blacks, we're talking about how our country is run. Whether the All Blacks win or lose, or who gets to pull on the black jersey really…

stephen clover

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:36:29 +1200

Unfair I accept, Irresponsible even? Maybe.

The insidious corruption of the media by the reality TV mindset, and the drive for page-views and click-thrus. So: unfair, irresponsible and unprofessional.

Alfie

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:28:50 +1200

Toby Manhire has a piece in the Guardian called New Zealand PM deceiving public over spying claims, says Glenn Greenwald. There's a good quote from Greenwald on Key's style of leadership.
"I've done reporting of surveillance all over the world and a lot of governments haven't liked what I've said,…

Jake Starrow

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:17:49 +1200

A handful of recent contributors bemoan the supposedly unfair amount of attention that Key receives from questioners. Specific suspicions such as patsy questions and a lack of hard follow-up questions etc all would have me believe Key is given a very soft ride.
I suspect the potential veracity of these…

Rob Stowell

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:05:51 +1200

He’s really not stupid and he’s very good at weighing the odds.

The contrast between that and the evasions and recitations he makes under pressure really is very striking.
Yep. Gordon Cambpell on the 'two Keys' in charge of the GCSB – the Rt Hon 'can't remember, not quite sure'…

Angela Hart

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 13:05:11 +1200

I just wish some of those "journalists" Rawshark left his stash with had the balls to publish.

yes, I hope he dispersed the material widely enough that it will be acted on. Can't understand the delay, unless there wasn't much left.

Steve Barnes

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 11:52:23 +1200

"People got really wound up about me calling him Dotcom's little henchman. I would have a modicum of respect for the guy if he had the guts to turn up here six months before the election, or six months after. If this loser is going to come to town and…

Sacha

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 11:37:11 +1200

You really think we haven’t been discussing the substance of this? Several recent threads, many hundreds of comments, well over 100k pageviews. And informed discussion since before Snowden.

James George

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 11:31:13 +1200

Yet here you all are again talking about the two dimensional media creation that is John Key instead of issues around the governance of the Key regime.
This is what is happening up and down the country as the 'chooks' fall over themselves reporting on the creep's reaction to the…

Sacha

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 10:52:31 +1200

Just watched some of the Newstalk ZB leaders’ breakfast stream.

Same. The chumminess of the media pack with Key was astounding to watch. Laughing along with him as if nothing had changed. Need a kick up the jacksie.

Steve Barnes

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 10:47:23 +1200

He’s really not stupid and he’s very good at weighing the odds
Sigh, the man is a money trader, that's wat he does and that's about all. Answering patsy questions that were probably rehearsed during a buddybuddy sleepover "that's a hard one Bobby" ' "yes it is John John. Fnah"…

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 09:48:22 +1200

But I couldn’t.

No I couldn't either. Something we actually agree on.

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 09:44:32 +1200

Interesting how this election is really all about Key

More to the point, ignoring every other politician over any puff piece about Key is taking up TV, Radio, and Media which would be the strategy. Look at his hairline, his wrinkle, his walk to the cafe. Selfies ( I'm cool),…

Hilary Stace

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 09:07:28 +1200

Interesting how this election is really all about Key. High risk strategy.

Jake Starrow

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 08:54:04 +1200

I have to give you the familiar "I couldn't agree more" retort Russell. But I couldn't.
The difference in body language and manner are marked.

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 08:18:46 +1200

lucid answer to Hosking’s questions about how the votes will fall in the Maori electorates and elsewhere. He’s really not stupid and he’s very good at weighing the odds.

Did he have the questions to be asked before the interview?

Joe Wylie

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 08:18:37 +1200

He’s really not stupid and he’s very good at weighing the odds.

The contrast between that and the evasions and recitations he makes under pressure really is very striking.
His intelligence doesn't prevent him from behaving as if he's running a 3rd world client state on behalf of his enablers.

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 08:08:50 +1200

He talked about the length of his tongue! I can’t unread that you know.

Heh, Gettin' past his use by date
Mr Key joked that the constant demand for selfies had seen the crow's feet around his eyes take a deeper hold.

"Everyone wants a photo." Oh you card ,you…

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 08:05:04 +1200

Just watched some of the Newstalk ZB leaders' breakfast stream. Key gave a long, lucid answer to Hosking's questions about how the votes will fall in the Maori electorates and elsewhere. He's really not stupid and he's very good at weighing the odds.

The contrast between that and the evasions…

izogi

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 07:45:39 +1200

I went to school with Key and I know the suburb he grew up in (and lived for several years in a state house) – it’s a fairly wealthy suburb pepper-potted with good-quality older public housing and, more importantly, is adjacent to once of the best state schools in the…

andin

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 07:40:55 +1200

My apologises sir

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 06:32:16 +1200

Wrong again, Jack Sparrow. Your not too clever are you.

Give it a rest, please. Address each other's arguments rather than calling each other stupid.

mark taslov

Mon, 15 Sept 2014 02:07:13 +1200

And are spectacularly bad at running it as a business unless, of course, their exit strategy is a buyout…

Following the links via Bryce Edward’s Herald piece to Stephen Keys' blog (might be one for the sidebar Russell) and one of his pieces on Chris Hedges, onto the video therein where…

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 23:15:44 +1200

I just wish some of those "journalists" Rawshark left his stash with had the balls to publish. Ede-Slater must surely be in there, but now that he's off the scene, they're not worried about missing the scoop.

Joe Wylie

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 23:13:58 +1200

That’s a very narrow view of the world- and of human nature.
It is, sadly, the predominent view of many trained in ‘business management’, but it’s not even true for business, let alone a country.

Remember the terminal phase of the fourth Labour Government, where cabinet went into a kind…

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:42:31 +1200

who are thinking more in a business mindset than a government mindset

And are spectacularly bad at running it as a business unless, of course, their exit strategy is a buyout...

Rob Stowell

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:39:30 +1200

A scout-troup, a 3- ring circus, a death metal band, a battalion of conscripts- all take the same inspired guidance in all aspects of human endeavour.?
No. That's a very narrow view of the world- and of human nature.
It is, sadly, the predominent view of many trained in 'business…

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:39:04 +1200

incredible, now you’re channelling “ugly truth”

Surprise surprise.

Steve Barnes

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:37:08 +1200

A Company, A Corporate, An Electorate ….all take the same inspired guidance in all aspects of human endeavour
Profit before people, you know it makes cents.

izogi

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:35:16 +1200

For example, If Key is re-elected and honours his pledge of no capital gains tax, he can’t govern for all in that respect. Stating the obvious I know but this “governing for all” concept just ain’t possible in so many aspects.

That’s a silly interpretation of only a very slight…

Trevor Nicholls

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:24:54 +1200

all take the same inspired guidance

incredible, now you're channelling "ugly truth"

I'm fairly confident that only people on the far right of the political spectrum regard government, corporate management and company ownership as three versions of the same thing.

andin

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:17:48 +1200

Wrong again, Jack Sparrow. Your not too clever are you.
Inspiration is not your forte is it!
Just another exploiter of humanity

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 22:09:20 +1200

A Company, A Corporate, An Electorate ....all take the same inspired guidance in all aspects of human endeavour.

andin

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 20:16:28 +1200

First and foremost, any government’s primary responsibility is execute the promises it put forth and was elected upon.

NO that’s how corporations work. Oh hang on a minute…

Alfie

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 20:09:08 +1200

To postulate that a government must govern in the interests of all is based on a flawed perception.
Bugger! There goes democracy as we'd hoped it might be.

Trevor Nicholls

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 20:00:45 +1200

Stating the obvious I know but this "governing for all" concept just ain't possible in so many aspects.

So you're a revolutionary now?

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 19:56:29 +1200

Your counsel of perfection needs challenging somewhat Izogi. To postulate that a government must govern in the interests of all is based on a flawed perception. First and foremost, any government's primary responsibility is execute the promises it put forth and was elected upon.
To try and also placate the…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 19:34:40 +1200

Key denies that, with extra refutingness.

la la la not listening ew! He talked about the length of his tongue! I can't unread that you know.

Stewart

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 17:29:02 +1200

Nice post, sir.

The one of yours above this one.

One thousand recommends.

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:52:21 +1200

They were all over the Dimpost for a while there. They start out expecting to gorge on the imagined low-hanging fruit Slater’s assured them was out there, before squealing foul and retiring in high victim mode. And yeah, they’re all hes.

Russell, might be worth comparing IP addresses with Danyl.

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:51:23 +1200

I’m not as green as I am cabbage-looking

Watch out for boats, you don't want to bump into the banks...

Danielle

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:29:26 +1200

Yeh, good ol fashioned direct postal mail.

I get mail "from" John Key (he is, unfortunately, also my electorate MP since they redrew the boundaries of Helensville) while my husband, the lucky bugger, gets mail from the Green Party. Don't assume you can sway THIS middle-class mother with all your…

andin

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:24:33 +1200

gets under your skins and drives you mad to the extent that resorting to vacuous abuse
See thats a cheap shot, you are ascribing motives, thoughts and actions which you can know nothing about. It just suits you to see it that way. Getit!
mull over a job well done…

Sacha

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:20:04 +1200

This is the type of control and lack of accountability that some of our less ethical company directors would dream of. There’s no effective accountability to the law and so no accountability to anyone.

Hence the character of these Ministers and their staff becomes all the more important. A moral…

James Littlewood*

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:19:24 +1200

perating government as if it’s a business whose sole purpose is to get done what it decides needs doing, instead of a government which is meant to do those things on behalf of the people it represents – not just those who voted for it

As I said, not since…

James Littlewood*

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:16:40 +1200

DM
The what now?

Yeh, good ol fashioned direct postal mail.

I can no longer see, read or hear of John Key without feeling that the analysts of Crosby Textor are there in the room/car/office with me.

Steve Barnes

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:13:22 +1200

Anyway, I think it’s the vanilla-ness of Key’s looks that work in his favour. People can project onto him whatever they want
Key denies that, with extra refutingness.
I wonder if he did, in fact, consult a doctor or vet, or is it just another of his "refutable…

Joe Wylie

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:13:02 +1200

Is it my imagination or have we seen an influx of bad faith fanbois derailing conversations on PAS since Dirty Politics was released? It’s almost like there was a deliberate campaign…

They were all over the Dimpost for a while there. They start out expecting to gorge on the imagined…

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:08:43 +1200

Funny you should say that. One part of my view of John Key is that he’s leading a Cabinet which is more interested in operating government as if it’s a business whose sole purpose is to get done what it decides needs doing, instead of a government which is meant…

Sacha

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:04:08 +1200

I think his biggest mistake was trusting too much, even naively. But that's no hanging offence.

It *is* when you're the sole oversight mechanism for an extremely powerful and intrusive state agency. Doing your job is not too much to expect.

izogi

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:41:11 +1200

With Key, what you see is mostly what you get….a Prime Minister whose narrative is as clear-minded and open as it was when he was a highly-successful businessman. His task is to get things done.

Funny you should say that. One part of my view of John Key is that…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:33:24 +1200

That and his good looks do much for his popularity.Erm, which good looks would those be? I don't see it, but maybe he’s attractive to men. I mean, I’ve read that apparently he’s considered attractive to some voters, but I think they’ve confused familiarity with good looks, a common mistake.…

SteveH

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:26:32 +1200

That said, Steve, I really don’t think anyone who was terribly keen to retrospectively amend under extreme urgency the Electoral Act to avoid a by-election nobody really wanted (or could afford to contest) could be characterized as “outsiders”.

By "outsider" I just meant that Key was not a career politician…

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:25:04 +1200

Is it my imagination or have we seen an influx of bad faith fanbois derailing conversations on PAS since Dirty Politics was released? It's almost like there was a deliberate campaign...

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:23:35 +1200

So in case anyone is interested in this stuff this is a link to the Amsterdam interview

Thanks for that. Smart man, and a point well made that lawyers would advise KDC to keep his head down.

CJM

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:23:05 +1200

An amazing interview. 7.12 "You're dealing with a government that has systemic issues of political corruption".
Succinct.

CJM

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:19:38 +1200

No. Certainly not rich. Earning less than 20k. But I can be a prick, especially when dealing with John Key fan boys and their lame-ass assumptions.

James George

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 15:03:18 +1200

This morning's Q&A was meant to have included an interview with lawyer Bob Amsterdam, who has been looking at the Intellectual Property and net neutrality issues surrounding the Megaupload bust.
But the show filled up with politicians. Same same – some being handed lame Dorothy Dix questions and others unanswerable queries…

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:48:37 +1200

So can we assume you are rich CJM but not a prick?

CJM

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:46:43 +1200

I presume he means 'direct mail'. I got one too, letter addressed to me. I live in the Epsom electorate, fuck knows why they thought I'd have any interest in it. We're not all rich pricks round here you know.

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:30:53 +1200

Oh, and for the record, that’s why I don’t like him as PM.

That, and the DM I got from him yesterday

The what now?

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:29:25 +1200

Yes Rob. I agree that Key may well hand over the reins mid or latish-term and Paula Bennett is the benefactor.
I for one wouldn't blame the man to ride off into the sunset, in his case, a beautiful Hawaiian one where he can sip martinis on his deck, mull…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:24:28 +1200

One of the things I dislike about the Key government is the degree to which they’ve used urgency. I suspect it’s partly due to Key being an outsider to the system. But it also goes back to the arrogance: “we know best and we’re not going to bother listening to…

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:23:37 +1200

Thanks Ian. I'm learning, albeit slowly.

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:22:32 +1200

A couple of points Russell.
I suspect you'd still agree that Key was far more likely to develop a common touch by attending Burnside High School as opposed to those stiflingly, narrow-minded Christchurch private secondary schools at the time, one of which I unfortunately attended.
And then, the commission/s of…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:15:49 +1200

de devil is in de detail...
Why are errors so apparent after posting.
'PREVIEW is your friend'
was the sage advice given me early on.

Always hit 'Preview'
before 'Post' ...
and then if t looks okay
and sounds okay
and can't be tweaked or trimmed
and is spelt proper…

Grant McDougall

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 14:14:14 +1200

I haven’t forgotten Bill English’s disastrous time as leader although he looks pretty statesman like now. I think you’re right, he has the broadest appeal, but I suspect Joyce might have the numbers in the party.

Maybe, but English has stood down as Clutha / Southland MP and gone on…

James Littlewood*

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 13:33:51 +1200

Oh, and for the record, that's why I don't like him as PM.

That, and the DM I got from him yesterday, telling me that my preferred choice of government will lead the country to "economic chaos" without giving me any coherent argument.

I suspect it's all Crosby Textor (Key's…

James Littlewood*

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 13:25:55 +1200

My apologies for arriving a little late to this. Not sure if it's still alive.

But: never in my life time (1st vote 1984 ... that went well, not) have I seen any government give so much to its own voters, at the expense of all the rest.

I suspect,…

simon g

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 13:22:16 +1200

What you see is what you get from John Key ... if what you see is a bingo card. It is 100% reliable, regardless of subject matter. And since it's predictable and prepared, it is therefore fake.

So, today on Greenwald/GCSB, we have ... the false analogy (Norton Anti-Virus) -…

SteveH

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 12:25:45 +1200

With Key, what you see is mostly what you get…
Key projects a nice guy, slightly goofy persona. That and his good looks do much for his popularity. But I'm not convinced. You don't get a nickname like "the smiling assassin" by being a nice guy. When challenged over anything…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 12:07:45 +1200

2014-the-meh-election
I really thought this election would galvanize people with revelations of skulduggery.
I really thought the people would be electrified by the depth of dirty deals,
that the voters would find their metal and cast out these blackguards,
that justice would prevail with its Minister gone.
But no, the…

Rob Stowell

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 12:07:12 +1200

Thanks Russell, you’ve spared me a power of typing (not so easy on tiny phone).
I’ve had a few chances to observe JK and it's evident he likes engaging with people -at least as long as he’s liked. He has a quick wit and a wry humour.
I think he’d…

Stewart

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:47:09 +1200

@Jake you requested my opinion and I gave it. It was nothing to do with raising the intellectual level of debate.
I feel that I, and others who share my lowly opinion of John Key, are the ones who can see the Emperor is naked. We are unimpressed by his…

nzlemming

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:43:07 +1200

I saw a thing on Facebook, yesterday. "Leaders don't create followers, they create more leaders." Seems appropriate.

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:41:45 +1200

By not being seen to simply wanting to impose an ideology, Key has promoted a winning empathy with a public weary of hidden or partly-hidden agendas.

With Key, what you see is mostly what you get….a Prime Minister whose narrative is as clear-minded and open as it was when he…

BenWilson

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:40:57 +1200

I’m not sure what the word is.

Fallacious. Not to be confused with the closely related Fellatious.

BenWilson

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:38:04 +1200

really, really gets under your skins and drives you mad

Well, it's true that I don't like him. Not because of his sizable (but not particularly amazing) popular appeal, but because of the things he does, and will do again, given enough votes from people like you who have clearly…

Danielle

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:29:19 +1200

his massive appeal and his overwhelming approval really, really gets under your skins and drives you mad

What's interesting to me is that your argument basically boils down to "I admire him because he's popular". That seems a little... self-fulfilling? Tautologous? I'm not sure what the word is.

I've never…

Sacha

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:17:11 +1200

I am no longer included on the list of alumni for this course

that's disgusting

Steve Barnes

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:14:09 +1200

I felt I knew why President Obama has described Key “as a friend whose company I really enjoy and who I can relax with.Maybe true for some people, myself, I have never been an admirer of those with riches, I know where it comes from, the pockets of the poor.…

oga

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:08:39 +1200

I did a leadership course for a year some time ago. In the process of that course, which took place over one weekend a month, I had the opportunity to meet several people whom the course organizers nominated as leaders in New Zealand. By and large, most of the people…

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 11:07:50 +1200

Thank-you for your advice Danielle.
Within minutes of posting my rationale, three replies emerge hinging on words such as "feculent" "smarmy" and suggesting that if I want children from John Key, fellatio won't do it. What gutter crap!
Is that what Russell was referring to in his requesting more "grown-up"…

andin

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 10:55:59 +1200

Boy that reads like a puff piece! No wonder it took you so long to reply.

BenWilson

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 10:54:51 +1200

That’s my opinion. Yours?

That one will never be able to bear John Key's children from fellatio alone.

Danielle

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 10:46:43 +1200

You can edit within fifteen minutes of posting by clicking the edit button at the bottom of your post. (You need to hover your mouse down there for it to become apparent.)

Stewart

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 10:44:38 +1200

That’s my opinion. Yours?

As previously stated, my opinion is that he is a feculent, smarmy, unprincipled twat who has no leadership qualities whatsoever.

Thanks for asking.

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 10:36:29 +1200

Why are errors so apparent after posting.
First line should read " John Key's massive popularity on our political stage ironically stems from a non-political background.

Jake Starrow

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 10:34:10 +1200

John Key's massive popularity on our political stage ironically stems from a non-popularity background.
Before he was head-hunted to become a member of the parliamentary political party, Key had no strong ties to the National Party.
This explains why he exudes a sense that he is not your usual ideology-driven…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 08:38:49 +1200

And I don’t think he likes lying: he seems to squirm. He has that queasy look when he admitted calling Slater: he knew it was wrong.
Just a few points, I see….
He can’t handle the confrontation. He can’t tolerate anyone questioning his actions.Hates feeling cornered. He reacts by attack.…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 01:09:17 +1200

The flirtation with promoting the patently gormless Bennett could have been encouraged by Crosby Textor’s past Australian success with Jackie Kelly. Kelly’s 1996 victory in the previously solid Labor seat of Lindsay, and her increased majority after a by-election following a Labor challenge, led to her being groomed as the…

Angela Hart

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 00:50:26 +1200

that rings some bells... that's right...
there was that Hench back of Notre, dame!

pure genius

Sacha

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 23:47:45 +1200

henching

great word

Sacha

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 23:46:26 +1200

Ian should have one permanently attached. #gold

nzlemming

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 21:41:42 +1200

that rings some bells… that’s right…
there was that Hench back of Notre, dame!

FFS! That wins this evening's Internets!

Hilary Stace

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 20:09:57 +1200

This is when Public Address real needs a Like or Favourite option!

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 19:33:07 +1200

Is there such a thing as a ‘little hench-woman’
that rings some bells... that's right...
there was that Hench back of Notre, dame!

Andre

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 19:19:34 +1200

Re: Paula Bennett. Is there such a thing as a 'little hench-woman' and if so can she become leader one day if she does enough henching?

mark taslov

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 18:14:26 +1200

Add alcohol withdrawal to that equation:

He's taken a vow of abstinence from booze until the election, he has trim milk in his coffees, and Diet Coke.

cocktail for disaster.

Hilary Stace

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 17:24:14 +1200

Just watched this morning’s Nation. Couldn’t be a bigger contrast in the interviews with Key and Cunliffe which were on before the interview with Glen Greenwald. Key looked exhausted, tried to pick a fight and sniffed. Cunliffe was firing on more than six cylinders, even correcting Patrick Gower’s maths. So…

Rob Stowell

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 16:52:46 +1200

Bennett’s a risk, but she’s probably a better bet that anyone else. Joyce is too hard to sell. Collins is tainted. Bridges is- no other way to put it- too dim. Bennett at least has a smidgen of charm.
I think English is also a possibility, but only because the…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 16:35:37 +1200

I saw Bennett on Backbenchers. She’s supposed to be impressive?!?!

I don’t get this either. But the theory is that because she’s seen through reforms at a minefield portfolio like MSD without getting blown up, she must be capable.

The flirtation with promoting the patently gormless Bennett could have been…

izogi

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 16:06:03 +1200

I don’t get this either. But the theory is that because she’s seen through reforms at a minefield portfolio like MSD without getting blown up, she must be capable.

I was always confused how Judith Collins could ever have been considered as leadership material, too, at least until very recent…

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 15:37:54 +1200

Brownlee has a conviction for assaulting a pensioner (I’m not making that up), so doesn’t have a clean sheet.

Strictly speaking, it's not a conviction – he lost a civil action brought by the victim. From Wikipedia:

Brownlee received criticism during the 1999 election campaign when he ejected Neil Able,…

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 15:32:28 +1200

I saw Bennett on Backbenchers. She’s supposed to be impressive?!?!

I don't get this either. But the theory is that because she's seen through reforms at a minefield portfolio like MSD without getting blown up, she must be capable.

andin

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 15:27:51 +1200

Its a wet saturday and I was sorta waiting for Jack Sparrow to compose a reply. It'll be a one hit wonder no doubt. So I foolishly went and read Jamie Whyte opening speech.
Man that boy must have had some serious drugs to come up with that saga, making…

chinashop

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 15:03:08 +1200

Remember how it made you feel 10 feet tall?
...
And the public? Don't get me started on the public. They're jonesing so hard.

Ha, yes, exactly! Great post. I was starting to get the shakes earlier this week, and eventually decided to wield some placards and other volunteery stuff.…

Grant McDougall

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 14:44:23 +1200

Dunno about Bridges and Brownlee.

Bridges is too young, plus he still has anger-management issues, ala the Campbell Live interview. Brownlee has a conviction for assaulting a pensioner (I'm not making that up), so doesn't have a clean sheet.

Angela Hart

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 14:33:01 +1200

Joyce will have to work on his public persona as anyone who saw him on the Nation a couple of weeks ago will not see him as a good PM.
Bennett isn't ready and I'm not sure she has it in her, I think she's a loyal and hard worker…

Trevor Nicholls

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 14:24:10 +1200

I saw Bennett on Backbenchers. She's supposed to be impressive?!?!

SteveH

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:57:18 +1200

Or Joyce. Or Bennett. Or Bridges. Or Brownlee. Or Smith…

Yup, and that list looks more or less in order of likelihood. Key has said he thought about quitting in mid 2012, I think the fallout from Dirty Politics will have him considering it again. Handing over around 12 months…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:48:13 +1200

Some good things Key’s done: by supporting them, he more-or-less ended the nasty going-nowhere debate over marriage equality and the repeal of S59. I think the nation benefitted.

While Labour’s reactionary rump on those issues was pretty minimal, it was there. Whether or not they had the potential to become…

SteveH

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:45:51 +1200

Is it really a matter of me arguing better and/or showing more respect.

Yes. You managed to piss me off in about 3 sentences and I haven't even seen the efforts of your previous incarnations. If you tone down the sarcasm etc., and simply make your points politely you'll find…

Rob Stowell

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:29:48 +1200

I'm inclined to a less rancorous debate. Partly because the echo-chamber is a little dangerous; maybe also because it's a little willful to insist JK is obviously nasty beyond the pale, just that noone but us can see it. And partly because I find him impressive myself- he's the most…

Dismal Soyanz

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:20:26 +1200

My impression of Kiwiblog is that for a while the more rabid posters were kept in check but then the moderation seemed to disappear and any semblance of debate faded away.

But I have to say that it is useful to visit it once in a while just to put…

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:08:20 +1200

Back now. Composing reply to Steven.

Danielle

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 12:51:09 +1200

Heh. I got "take a deep breath", "in a tiz", and the implication that I needed to calm down! It's the sexist response trifecta!

nzlemming

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 12:48:24 +1200

Poor old Dad4Justice used to pull that one back when they’d let him in to Kiwiblog.

Good memory! (Not that I spent a lot of time on Kiwiblog, you understand.)

nzlemming

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 12:45:15 +1200

Is it really a matter of me arguing better and/or showing more respect.

It really is.

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:47:41 +1200

Take a deep breath Danielle. Simply expressing my admiration for New Zealand’s most popular Prime Minister ever [as per each and any poll] shouldn’t send you into such a tiz. It’s simply an opinion. Grounds for debate.

Oh, good grief. You’re being really patronising and doing exactly what Danielle was…

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:39:20 +1200

That’s an example of the problem: you don’t seem to be very good at making your points without almost immediately going into the drama-flounce death spiral. “YOU GUYS ARE MEAN AND YOU SUCK!” isn’t actually an argument, y’know?

I think this identifies the problem.

andin

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:35:45 +1200

preference that people with opposite opinions to yours
Oh Woe, those of the oppressed majority

Joe Wylie

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:29:24 +1200

In a hurry to get kids to sport

Poor old Dad4Justice used to pull that one back when they'd let him in to Kiwiblog.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:22:41 +1200

If National can form a government I predict English will take over around 12 months in.

Or Joyce. Or Bennett. Or Bridges. Or Brownlee. Or Smith...

David Hood

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:20:37 +1200

Unless you’re Jason Ede, finally out of hiding! That would be awesome.

Brilliant bit of logic there Danielle.

Jason Ede, if that's you and logically it must be, perhaps your time spent arguing on the internet could be better used answering questions, for I have questions for you. Many, many…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:20:27 +1200

and me as a “sock puppeteer” as just two examples of the vitriol that permeates many a comment on your site

The truth hurts.

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:17:37 +1200

Make that "is the preference that people with opposite opinions to yours etc"

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:14:34 +1200

Take a deep breath Danielle. Simply expressing my admiration for New Zealand's most popular Prime Minister ever [as per each and any poll] shouldn't send you into such a tiz. It's simply an opinion. Grounds for debate.
Or is your reaction demonstrative of exactly what I was referring to in…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:10:19 +1200

my admiration for Key was taken as an opinion and not a reason to ridicule.
Can't it be both?

andin

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:10:09 +1200

Being selective in you judgement never promotes credibility
Oh the old "lets be fair to everyone" gambit. Being used by a supporter? (whatever you are) is a kinda sick joke.

Danielle

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:58:29 +1200

But calling the National government "psychopaths" isn't actually vitriol directed at YOU. (Unless you're Jason Ede, finally out of hiding! That would be awesome.) So it seems a bit excessive to get all huffy about that descriptor, no matter how ill-advised it is. I mean, I could write your rebuttal…

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:50:39 +1200

In a hurry to get kids to sport Steven. I'll answer that soonish. Thanks.

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:49:34 +1200

Nor is calling the National Government “psychopaths” much of an argument Danielle.
Being selective in you judgement never promotes credibility.

Danielle

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:41:05 +1200

"Sock puppeteer" isn't an example of "vitriol": it's just a description of what you were doing, which is coming back under another name and pretending you were someone else with the same opinions. That's an example of the problem: you don't seem to be very good at making your points…

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:30:53 +1200

Please insert question marks where missing and make that "an impression......"
Thank-you.

Jake Starrow

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:29:05 +1200

I appreciate you granting me a stay of execution. But please answer me this.
Is it really a matter of me arguing better and/or showing more respect. Or is it that I obviously tout opinions not in line with the overwhelming majority of your commenters.
I ask that as a…

Isaac Freeman

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 10:19:30 +1200

Trying to do "Let's make a story about how the Greens could work with National, people will fall for that" as "Let's nick the neighbour's poppies and make our own opium – how hard can it be?", but it's not gelling.

The fact is, I don't know enough about drugs.

nzlemming

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 09:30:01 +1200

Who’s the sock-puppeteer previously gone as? I have a hunch who

Started on the Chch thread as Jeremy Botham – banned, came back as a "friend" of Botham, Sam Bryant – banned, and is now masquerading as Jake Starrow.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 00:44:33 +1200

Look, it’s fairly clear you’re a commenter I’ve previously banned, but I’ve been inclined to give you yet another shot.

Who's the sock-puppeteer previously gone as? I have a hunch who.

nzlemming

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 00:23:46 +1200

You need to get better at arguing, and the basis of that is showing some respect to the other people here. If you can’t, I’ll just ban you for a third time.

You know you want to ;-)

Russell Brown

Sat, 13 Sept 2014 00:17:16 +1200

On brief reflection, please keep that information to yourself. Got a feeling we don’t wanna know Kevin.

Look, it’s fairly clear you’re a commenter I’ve previously banned, but I’ve been inclined to give you yet another shot.

You need to get better at arguing, and the basis of that is…

Pete

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 23:25:09 +1200

"Oh Mr Roberts, I wish there was a way I could vote for you a hundred times!"
"Matter of fact, ma'am, there is"

No-one's polled me and as far as I'm concerned there is one opinion poll and it happens every 4 years

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 22:30:09 +1200

anag. 4,7
A Straw Joker...
struts & preens
here to correct us
slurs & demeans
bile duct erectus

SteveH

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 22:13:22 +1200

My name's not Kevin. And I'm not interested in discussing it with you. If I wanted a debate about it I can find plenty of Nat supporters who can make a point without being a dick. Thanks all the same.

Jake Starrow

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 22:02:58 +1200

Oh please Kevin. I ask you! How can you seriously contend that a chap who as leader, brought the National Party their worst election result ever. Paula Bennett will be the next Nats leader. It's locked in.

SteveH

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:56:58 +1200

I predict you won't be here long if you keep up that attitude.

Jake Starrow

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:52:33 +1200

Any other inspired predictions you feel inclined to share SteveH. Racehorses? sports events? etc. Please pass them on so that I can place bets on every other outcome rather than the ones you predict.
That will at least increase my chances of a collect or two.

Jake Starrow

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:47:33 +1200

"Psychopaths" Kevin? Having treatment for your highly-inflated hater disposition? How else does this mammoth dose of vitriol racing through your veins manifest itself Kevin?
On brief reflection, please keep that information to yourself. Got a feeling we don't wanna know Kevin.

Rich Lock

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 20:02:03 +1200

We were somewhere around Waiouru on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. I remember saying something like "I feel a bit lightheaded; maybe you should drive..." And suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked…

andin

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 18:08:51 +1200

The only happy crew are the gang that used to run things.
Yep once they’ve rode out the hysteria they’ll knock off the Faceman.
He’s gettin’ to be a dead bird round their necks anyway…
OO snap!

SteveH

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 17:05:16 +1200

If JK can't form a governing coalition after the election then the corporate backers will drop him and find another, less tarnished face to sell their low wage/low tax/low regulation/state asset sale/socialize pollution costs agenda.

My pick is that Key won't last long whether he wins or not. If National…