Field Theory: The Return
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I dunno. How long were the Springboks feted as world champions this time? About five minutes, by my recall.
Might have been longer in South Africa, actually. And at any rate, how long have we been feted as Tri Nations champions? Has anybody even noticed? I honestly struggle to remember from year to year.
But the clincher is: how long have we been mourning losing the cup? A bloody long time, it seems to me.
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"And yet in the last 20 years the rest of the world seems to have managed okay."
as far as i understand (win/loss ratio) we are as hard to beat as any time in our 100 + year glorious history,
The all blacks should have transcended pettiness by now and just be celebrated as something this country has got fantastically right, even down to the best strip in world sport, can't we celebrate ourselves proudly for once?
Look if we start looking like number 2 then let's all write concerned. soul searching words but we are undenilably the best team in the world and have been across my lifetime and sometime before that. I can't stop supporting them and I'm not supposed to, there a gift to the sports fan and a pride for our islands.
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The Crusaders' jersey? Seriously? A sword on the front?
I don't get the surprise. Unless it's the fact it's pointing down - and not, say at a right angle.
1 - The Crusaders supporters lapel pin is a little sword.
2 - The Kids wave a nice big foam sword, the subject of copyright disputes
3 - The liquorice knights who ride around on the horses at the beginning wave swords.
4 - At the end of winning seasons, the team plants a sword in the middle of the pitch (apparently given to them by a supporter in South Africa)That said, I do like the Rangitoto design of Auckland. I think Wellington could have got a bit more Manawatu into the away strip though.
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This might sound awfully full of kiwi-centric hubris, but I can imagine that the All Black's failure to win the WRC must be beginning to undermine the credibility of the tournament as a place that finds a "champion" of anything except that particular event. As such, even the Stephen Jones and the gravy-train toffs from the English RFU who have seamlessly moved into running the IRB must be getting worried, since the whole WRC circus is the cash cow that keeps them in their Saville Row suits and flash international hotels...
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That said, I do like the Rangitoto design of Auckland. I think Wellington could have got a bit more Manawatu into the away strip though.
Coming tomorrow afternoon is the more "indepth" analysis of the unis and an interview with the head of Adidas New Zealand. (How's that for a teaser?)
But basically (and you can save up your abuse of me until then) I really like them...except the Highlanders' away strip. ick.
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This might sound awfully full of kiwi-centric hubris, but I can imagine that the All Black's failure to win the WRC must be beginning to undermine the credibility of the tournament as a place that finds a "champion" of anything except that particular event.
Yes, it does sound like hubris. It's the same attitude that many Brazilians take to football, where the world cup is a sensible tournament only when it confirms that they're the best team in the world, which of course in their estimation is always true regardless. Cardiff in 07 was nothing compared to Barcelona in 82, I can tell you - and I've spoken to people who still think Brazil was entitled to win that tournament. But it's all crap of course, you win it or lose it on the field. And yes, some games are strange, but it isn't a lottery, those who rise above it win. And it takes character, not just sheer skill, because the pressure is entirely different from any other test. So it is THE test. And if you don't pass, the year before and the year after you can rule the roost but it means very little.
People who talk about Barnes keep forgetting that France was awful, and I find the tacit assumption that if we had squeaked past them we would have beaten SA is irritating in the extreme. We didn't lose the final, we crashed out of the quarterfinals.
So complain about the world cup as much as you want, but since every team - including the ABs - value it over everything else, it's the tournament that crowns the world champions, those who plan better and train better and perform better at the peak of the four year cycle. This idea that we're still better than the rest even if we keep being spanked in the games that count is playground stuff, it really is.
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@Giovanni re: Brazil
What happens when there is the big South American version of Euro? Or are their best players over in Europe?
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What happens when there is the big South American version of Euro? Or are their best players over in Europe?
They have rights of release, thankfully. The European clubs always complain about that, of course (bastards). It runs every three years, too, not four, although I think sometimes it also counts partly as a world cup qualifier - but I could be very wrong about that.
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Ah, but then it occurs to me that you were asking me something else. Well, they win it a lot: four of the last five editions - although interestingly only one of the previous eight. Zico's team lost it against Uruguay in 83 - they were probably still asking themselves how they allowed Rossi to sink them with that hat trick the year before.
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People who talk about Barnes keep forgetting that France was awful, and I find the tacit assumption that if we had squeaked past them we would have beaten SA is irritating in the extreme. We didn't lose the final, we crashed out of the quarterfinals.
That's just made-up talk, ie bullshit. France were very good in a couple of key areas.
Through playing us and extensive video analysis they figured out a tackle approach that took away our offload ball - well done to them. And they executed that like men possessed. IMHO we did try options to adapt around that.
Our pick and go on the line scored us one try with very low risk, and there was every reason to think it would get us points again. It absolutely would have if the men who were supposed to be reffing the game weren't merely watching it - who could blame them, it was utterly mesmerising.
But the French managed a very effective spoil - it not just that they went so long without giving away a penalty, its that they did so much wrong (on their try line!) without giving up a penalty.
I'm not going to go there on flakey field-goals vs. those forwards in close getting over the line. I'd have hung on to the ball too. Maybe even for longer.
For anyone who likes to sit at the keyboard and bang on about lack of character I'd really appreciate a link to the clip and mins:secs where we see any All Black giving it less than 100%, giving up, or doing anything other than giving it death with a very grim look on their face.
Anyway, good on you GH, I'm not your biggest fan but gee here in NZ there are some clueless dicks who like to talk shit about rugby. Makes you wonder exactly what they do enjoy about it.
</rant>
Dunno where that came from except its late and I'm still working.
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__I dunno. How long were the Springboks feted as world champions this time? About five minutes, by my recall.__
Might have been longer in South Africa, actually.
No, actually. They won it in September and Jake White, the coach, was on the way out from the moment his plane touched down at home. He departed in November, making no secret of his bitterness. For the SA rugby public, it wasn't on the same planet as the Boks' win of the All Blacks in RWC 95. De Villiers has hung on this year, but not much more than that.
Frankly, RWC 07 wasn't a good product -- the final stages were awful.. There were a few good games, but there wasn't a rugby occasion anywhere near as good as, say, the Munster game on this tour.
And at any rate, how long have we been feted as Tri Nations champions? Has anybody even noticed? I honestly struggle to remember from year to year.
Of course. But I always know who's holding the Bledisloe Cup. Kinda my point.
But the clincher is: how long have we been mourning losing the cup? A bloody long time, it seems to me.
I'm philosophical about it. I'd love to win it, but it's like a like a cosmic joke at the moment. It's the hysterical response that gets on my tits.
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That's just made-up talk, ie bullshit. France were very good in a couple of key areas.
Against the ABs, yes. But they lost the opener against Argentina and dutifully went on to lose against England. I think you could make a reasonable case that it was us who made them look good.
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I dunno. How long were the Springboks feted as world champions this time? About five minutes, by my recall.
I'm still loving it. I put $100 on them at the TAB the day betting opened. They paid $1100.
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I've spoken to people who still think Brazil was entitled to win that tournament.
Heh - Giovanni I'm one of those footballing tragics. And with all due deference to a fine Italian team who obviously had brought their own script to that game, there was something of the romantic tragedy in having such an outrageously (I can still see some of the stuff Falcao did) gifted Brazilian team having those gifts undone by the more pragmatic and prosaic approach of a fine Italian team who recognised that football is not just about looking purty. While the Brazil = All Blacks analogy works to a certain extent, I've never thought of the AB approach as being anything less than ruthless.
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Ah, but then it occurs to me that you were asking me something else.
Actually I wasn't but I did appreciate the extra info. I was wondering if the Brazillians put more emphasis on the World cup because their version of Euro was less interesting. But it seems that is not a good assumption.
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In football terms, the All Blacks are like Brazil (beautiful game-style backline moves) crossed with Germany's ruthless efficiency up front.
How come we don't win World Cups again?I think we should stick with it though, eh. Once we get the monkey off our backs in a WC, I reckon we'll win 5 in a row, and people will lament a devalued tournament because we always win instead of never winning.
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But, he says replying to himself, other than football what has Brazil got? Carnivale? Girls in bikinis? The Amazon? Nuts?
Now replace Brazil with New Zealand and football with rugby and you get an understanding of where we sit. Though I would argue that New Zealand is better at rugby than Brazil is in football.
Frankly, RWC 07 wasn't a good product -- the final stages were awful.. There were a few good games, but there wasn't a rugby occasion anywhere near as good as, say, the Munster game on this tour.
It had it's moments but they were more "OMG didn't that game get exciting" like Ireland v Georgia, or France v Argentina (the first one, which may have been the best game of the tournament) or Samoa v Tonga.
The pool matches, rather than being whole events, were seemingly marketed as filler before the "real rugby" later on.
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Heh - Giovanni I'm one of those footballing tragics. And with all due deference to a fine Italian team who obviously had brought their own script to that game, there was something of the romantic tragedy in having such an outrageously (I can still see some of the stuff Falcao did) gifted Brazilian team having those gifts undone by the more pragmatic and prosaic approach of a fine Italian team who recognised that football is not just about looking purty.
I watched the game again recently, and was struck by how much better than Brazil we played. Italy should have actually won 4-2 (in the disallowed goal Antognoni was not offside) and Rossi and Conti failed to score another pair alone in front of Valdir Perez. But we were so in awe of the might and effortlessness of Brazil in the lead-up that I remembered the game for years as being a siege. It wasn't, we kind of ridiculed them really, esp. considering that all that Brazil needed in order to go through was a draw.
Plus: Falcao, Zico, Socrates, Junior, Eder, sure... but also Antognoni, Conti, Scirea, Rossi, Tardelli. The talent on that Italian team was sublime. That phase in the final against Germany when they set up shop in the German box in the lead-up to Tardelli's goal was more impressive than anything that Brazil had done.
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Of course. But I always know who's holding the Bledisloe Cup. Kinda my point.
I remember all the world cup winners from 1987 ownwards. Do you remember the toing and froing of the Bledisloe in that period of time? Plus it's all well and good so long as you don't start bandying around the 'best team in the world' tag, otherwise it becomes a tad parochial to limit the search to this corner of the planet. But your point about the sheen of the cup win quickly dissipating in South Africa is well taken.
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I remember all the world cup winners from 1987 ownwards. Do you remember the toing and froing of the Bledisloe in that period of time?
But that's 21 Bledisloes and only five World Cups. I can name all the Superbowl Winners from this year back some distance (I haven't tried to see, but I doubt it'd be 21 years)
Could you do the Euro winners too? And Champions League? And Italian Premier League (sorry I forgot the actual name)
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Plus it's all well and good so long as you don't start bandying around the 'best team in the world' tag, otherwise it becomes a tad parochial to limit the search to this corner of the planet.
No, let's include the rest of the planet. Who would you pick? We're not RWC holders and don't deserve to be. But we are the best team in the world right now, no question.
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I watched the game again recently, and was struck by how much better than Brazil we played
I'd quite like to see the game again actually, maybe my memory is more nostalgic than it should be.
Certainly, while that Brazilian team had a fantastic attack (apart from Sergio) they did have a poor defence and the traditionally sausage-fingered goalkeeper. By my recollection both the Brazilian goals were sublime, and at least one if not two of the Rossi goals were directly as a result of defensive error. But I probably wouldn't be surprised to see upon a second view (26 years later) that Italy had the lions share of possession and territory.
I guess I don't want to venture too far into the 'by definition the best team in any tournament is the team that wins' because (clearly in the case of last years RWC) I simply don't believe that such a maxim is always true. Upsets of favourites are the thing that makes sport so compelling.
But happy to concede that Italy '82 were a great team, who are all too commonly underrated by the football purists who deify that Brazilian team :)
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Could you do the Euro winners too? And Champions League? And Italian Premier League (sorry I forgot the actual name)
I can remember all the trophies Tottenham have won between 82 and now.
*hollow laugh*
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I can remember all the trophies Tottenham have won between 82 and now.
Yes, they even managed to spoil the Monty Python Coventry City/ FA Cup joke.
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I can remember all the trophies Tottenham have won between 82 and now.
What about the BLACKCAPS?
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