Public Address | Cafe | Envirologue: Too Big to Fail – Why National will Never Act on Climate Change

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 27 May 2016 16:55:28 +1200

Austalingrad...
No worries, mate
yeah, odd, I'd have thought with their history of 'white Australia' they'd have embraced bleached reefs wholeheartedly...

David Hood

Fri, 27 May 2016 12:06:20 +1200

No worries, mate

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/27/australia-scrubbed-from-un-climate-change-report-after-government-intervention

Brent Jackson

Tue, 24 May 2016 18:49:43 +1200

And the Rio Tinto bail-out is continuing to have ongoing detrimental effects on our carbon emissions.

Alfie

Tue, 24 May 2016 18:21:26 +1200

The latest government stats published this month show that NZ's carbon emissions have increased 23% compared with 1990. RNZ reports that our insane rush into dairy conversions is largely to blame.

Agricultural emissions had increased 15 percent since 1990, which the report said was primarily due to an almost 95…

Alfie

Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:22:01 +1300

Horizon Regional Council has also purchased dodgy Lithuanian and Russian carbon credits. Back when NZ credits cost $12 each, these fraudulent credits cost a mere two cents apiece — a real bargain according to the story.

Though quite how those fraudulent pieces of paper will slow global warming and save…

Alfie

Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:15:42 +1300

Doctors Joshua Freeman and Hayley Bennet point out that the investor/state loophole in the TPPA could trump the Paris climate accord. In our new TPPA world the right of fossil fuel companies to make profits far outweighs the effects of climate change, regardless of the disastrous consequences to the planet.

In…

linger

Mon, 21 Dec 2015 17:50:07 +1300

she’s the perfect person for the job'cause to National the job title "Minister for Climate Change" means someone to facilitate bringing it about.

David Hood

Mon, 21 Dec 2015 17:12:47 +1300

Here in Dunedin, I see there was a hotter day in February of 1981 than today. No hotter December days (looking back through weather station data to the 1940s).

Alfie

Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:16:15 +1300

Paula Bennett, our new minister for climate change has announced that New Zealand has achieved its first round of emissions reduction targets. She says we're "on track to meet its 2020 target."

The public has a right to be skeptical, keeping in mind the fact that the minister has no scientific…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:23:26 +1300

The old “If I don’t do it, some one else will, so I may as well do it

John Key managed to say exactly that to the Green Party yesterday in Question time.
With Paula Bennett becoming Mincer for Climate change , her appointment to be is off to a…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 10 Dec 2015 05:23:25 +1300

... a hard rain is gonna fall
Both men were comfortable with laundering supposed oil company money through trusts to hide the source of their ill-gotten gains.
The old __ "If I don't do it, some one else will, so I may as well do it – and take the…

Alfie

Wed, 09 Dec 2015 20:03:22 +1300

An undercover Greenpeace sting has exposed two US academics prepared to support climate denial in return for generous payments. These guys have credentials from Princeton and Penn State Universities.

For payments of a few thousand up to $50k dollars, these credibility-for-hire frauds are prepared to add a thin veneer of…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:45:06 +1300

Scrooge...
Bill English responds… Yeah, nah
Well, Bill would take the leaf on dealing with alarms out of his mates at Serco's book – don't investigate just reset it...
shame that this is Parliament's own Watchdog they're not listening to – the selective hearing of all National representatives astounds me!…

Alfie

Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:02:26 +1300

Bill English responds... Yeah, nah.

Alfie

Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:09:14 +1300

Thank God for Jan Wright, our Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. In a report released today (PDF, 2.9Mb) she’s advised Bill English to starting costing in the financial impact of sea level rises. Because it is happening and it will be costly.

Related stories
RNZ
Herald
Stuff

Rosemary McDonald

Thu, 29 Oct 2015 14:44:09 +1300

Are Fonterra really happy to be seen as corporate bastards?

Yes.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1510/S00479/new-oecd-environment-report-damaging-for-nzs-reputation.htm

But of course...http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/288230/ministry-blasts-report-on-nz's-environment-record

Alfie

Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:59:41 +1300

Fonterra is NZ's third largest user of coal. They use it to dry milk powder in ten of their plants. Some of their North Island plants use gas but all of their South Island facilities use coal. In total Fonterra uses over half a million tonnes of coal each year.…

Alfie

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 07:20:39 +1300

Associated Press have modified their style guide. From now on the expressions "climate change denier" and "climate change skeptic" are verboten. The AP's new term for those who wilfully choose to ignore overwhelming scientific evidence is "Climate doubter" which is so much softer and fluffier, don't you think?

Alfie

Wed, 02 Sept 2015 13:14:38 +1200

New Zealand's climate ambassador, Jo Tyndall has teamed up with the Aussies. They reckon it would be too costly to make more of an effort to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

Of course both governments are conveniently ignoring the very real cost of doing nothing.

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:00:14 +1200

the pyromantic era...
pre-European “firestick farming”
Snap!
I saw a great documentary on aboriginal burning techniques just yesterday on the Arts Channel...

here's another take on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMwDTEe1R4

this was interesting too:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27945-myth-of-pristine-amazon-rainforest-busted-as-old-cities-reappear/

Joe Wylie

Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:28:24 +1200

While we shouldn't expect denialists and trolls to view climate change through logical eyes any time soon, we're in trouble when governments like our own willingly choose to ignore the in-your-face reality of increasing weather extremes. Because it's those extremes which will ultimately have the most destructive affect on our…

Alfie

Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:47:57 +1200

The main point I took from Flannery's Guardian article was that we're too fixated on graphs showing average temperatures. Sure there's a steady upward trend, but that doesn't tell the full story. As he says, "...it’s the devastating extremes, rather than a shift in averages, that have the greatest impact."…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:33:52 +1200

Tim Flannery writing in the Guardian puts paid to the theory espoused by Tony Abbott that Australia's massive bushfires have absolutely no connection to global warming.

Flannery has written compellingly about the role of pre-European "firestick farming" in shaping the Australian environment. In The Future Eaters he cited James Cook's…

Rob S

Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:02:38 +1200

I think you'll find that both Mr Key and Groser are relaxed about that global warming thing.
Anything that isn't a short term problem gets kicked down the road with this lot.
Traders don't look at the long view, just complete the deal and then move on.

Alfie

Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:37:54 +1200

Tim Flannery writing in the Guardian puts paid to the theory espoused by Tony Abbott that Australia's massive bushfires have absolutely no connection to global warming.
When, in late 2013, Australian prime minister Tony Abbott and his environment minister Greg Hunt argued that there is no link between the warming…

Alfie

Wed, 26 Aug 2015 11:50:11 +1200

Remember all those cheap carbon credits bought from Russia and the Ukraine? Turns out they were largely invented.

A new study from the Stockholm Environment Institute says the vast majority of carbon credits purchased from eastern Europe were nothing more than "hot air" and no actual emissions were harmed in…

Alfie

Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:58:42 +1200

Solar panels are appearing on my garage roof here in Christchurch as I type

You'll never look back Robert. Of course your life will change a little as you keep checking to see how much power you've generated today. Or you might even become anal (like me) and keep track…

Robert Urquhart

Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:37:49 +1200

Solar panels are appearing on my garage roof here in Christchurch as I type :D

Alfie

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:30:36 +1200

off the grid...

I saw that the other night Ian and was so impressed I tracked down the architect who is doing some great zero energy work.

I must confess, I'm secretly musing with the idea of building a small off-grid home. Maybe 10kWh solar, a couple of small windmills,…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:14:32 +1200

off the grid...
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/energy-efficient-home-scores-perfect-10-2015080518

Alfie

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:14:26 +1200

And solar technology has not reached its energy payback ratio to be economicaly viable for New Zealand conditions yet?
I can assure you that solar is viable these days — to me it's a no-brainer to add solar panels to your home. Yet there are just over 5,000 installed systems…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:31:08 +1200

there is no Plan(et) B...
Interesting to note how out of step Tony Abbott is with his 'best bud' Barack Obama on the renewables and clean power front – Obama is ramping up the action pushing solar and wind, while [[http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-13/pm-defends-decision-to-axe-wind-solar-from-cefc-spending/6615372|Abbott is distancing himself and removing support from the same…

Alfie

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:21:34 +1200

They have 5 dams and a wind farm.
I'd forgotten that Genesis inherited the Tekapo stations from Meridian as part of that levelling out of power companies. However their wind farm is really only a toy one (22GWh pa) and over 75% of their generation still comes from gas.

As…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 09:10:20 +1200

They have 5 dams and a wind farm.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 07 Aug 2015 07:42:53 +1200

dam(n) buster(d)s...
no mention of Genesis moving into solar or wind or anything remotely green or sensible
..and let's not forget 'we the people' had only just finished building a brand new geothermal powerstation and before it could even start returning money the National Gov't sold half our share along…

Alfie

Thu, 06 Aug 2015 17:36:14 +1200

Genesis will shut down the last two coal-burning generators at the Huntly power station in 2018. That will save them $20-$25m a year and effectively achieves 20% of the government's latest carbon emission target in one easy exercise.
Green Party co-leader James Shaw said Genesis' decision had highlighted how unambitious…

Alfie

Tue, 04 Aug 2015 12:47:13 +1200

Leaders of countries are usually remembered for their big decisions.

When it comes to climate change, David Cameron is determined to get rid of all the green crap, Tony Abbott intends to kill Australia's renewable energy sector and our own government is pussyfooting about in the hope of some yet-to-be-invented…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:36:44 +1200

Flightless Club...
...we will somehow magically save the kiwi, address our water quality challenges and eliminate greenhouse gases
In related news, that big friendly Aussie bank is apparently about to announce that they are no longer interested in helping kiwi!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/70458070/bnz-to-end-support-for-kiwi-recovery-programme

They must have too much tied up in Dairy…

Alfie

Wed, 22 Jul 2015 18:57:15 +1200

Labour MP Meka Whaitiri's private member's bill which reinforces the role of the Government's environmental protection agency amazingly passed its first reading by one vote this afternoon, with backing from Labour, Greens, New Zealand First, the Maori Party and... wait for it... United Future.
The bill made sure that protecting, maintaining…

Alfie

Wed, 01 Jul 2015 17:25:13 +1200

In what must rate as sticking up a political finger to climate change, KiwiRail is replacing more than a dozen electric trains with diesel-powered engines for the Wellington-Auckland route.

Naturally, KiwiRail is buying the locos "dirt cheap" out of China. I wonder if they come with free asbestos, fan blades…

Moz

Mon, 29 Jun 2015 19:13:50 +1200

I used to love singing "turn off the sun, turn off the sun, darken the world, no radia-shun" at anti-nuclear rallies. I met some STEM geeks with great senses of humour doing that. And attracted some blank looks from... um... non-STEM people.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:56:46 +1200

http://www.theonion.com/article/scientists-trace-heat-wave-to-massive-star-at-cent-21088

Alfie

Mon, 29 Jun 2015 16:58:50 +1200

Here's a great little infographic from Bloomberg... What's really warming the world.

Alfie

Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:15:57 +1200

White Man Behind A Desk — on climate change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRkpOrF2gw8

linger

Mon, 18 May 2015 13:19:24 +1200

Some smells are more objective (and objectionable) than others,
but how we react subjectively depends on who they’re associated with:

Congratulations, baby’s due;
Your home will shortly reek of poo.
But don’t your darling child rebuke:
It helps to mask the stench of puke.
( The Right Time, series 1,…

BenWilson

Mon, 18 May 2015 10:25:10 +1200

Your truth is yours and yours alone.

The smelling is subjective, but the smell is objective. More mind bending is "is there really such a thing as subjective truth"? Am I really imagining the smell of asparagus pee, or am I mistaken in my imagination, and that's really the smell…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 15 May 2015 18:38:38 +1200

I know this is slightly off-topic, but can I ask if this is the reason some people can smell asparagus pee and others miss it altogether?

This is from memory but as I recall there are two things going on ...

First only some people convert the compounds in asparagus…

Alfie

Fri, 15 May 2015 16:22:01 +1200

They found, as you might expect, different people can smell different odours with different sensitivity. Then they genotyped all the people and looked for and found evidence that the ability to detect some odours is a fairly simple genetic trait.

Bart... I know this is slightly off-topic, but can I…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 15 May 2015 15:12:29 +1200

http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v3/n3/full/nrg756.html

http://www.nature.com/news/soapy-taste-of-coriander-linked-to-genetic-variants-1.11398

Also, an idea that smell might relate to vibrational states of spectra:

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2011/02/18/smell_the_vibrations_fruit_flies_might_be_able_to_.php

Bart Janssen

Fri, 15 May 2015 14:13:44 +1200

“What is truth, anyway?”

So in a completely random side track. I work at PFR* one of our Crown research institutes and as much as I bitch and moan about the state of our CRIs I do get to work with some amazing folks.

One of these Richard Newcomb (now our…

Russell Brown

Fri, 15 May 2015 12:19:53 +1200

Woohoo Bingo!

We now have the
“Science is never absolutely certain so because there is always some doubt it must be wrong”

Next step: "What is truth, anyway?"

Kumara Republic

Fri, 15 May 2015 12:15:08 +1200

Stamper – can you please tell us what your job is?
I’m ok with you posting this rubbish if you genuinely believe it. I’m sad to say I’ve met a few people who do – some of whom are cranky or cocky enough to spend their own time spreading misinformation.…

BenWilson

Fri, 15 May 2015 11:07:43 +1200

Sort of says it all, doesn’t it.

No, it says very little, and is a very incomplete statement. I can, for instance, say with extremely high level of likelihood that the average temperature of the earth's surface will be between zero and 100 degrees celcius for the next million years.…

Rob Stowell

Fri, 15 May 2015 09:27:28 +1200

we still know who pays him to post this shit.
I'd really like this to be clarified.
Stamper – can you please tell us what your job is?
I'm ok with you posting this rubbish if you genuinely believe it. I'm sad to say I've met a few people who…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 15 May 2015 08:48:32 +1200

So what are his options now ?

Woohoo Bingo!

We now have the
“Science is never absolutely certain so because there is always some doubt it must be wrong”

Pity we still know who pays him to post this shit.

John Farrell

Fri, 15 May 2015 07:47:54 +1200

Who needs science and logic when you have religious convictions?

Rob Stowell

Fri, 15 May 2015 00:12:28 +1200

You may not be aware
That your quote doesn't demonstrate what you think it does. Maybe you could do some courses in science – or logic?

Stamper Stamp

Thu, 14 May 2015 23:56:18 +1200

Hi Tussock – an impressive response, thank you.

You may not be aware that the IPCC have admitted they don’t know what the future climate is going to be – just as well given they could not predict an 18 year flat-line of temperature while CO2 climbed from approx 350ppm…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 14 May 2015 14:02:42 +1200

the 400 million Chinese that have been lifted out of poverty by the “current global model”
Why do I always find myself chuckling when Communist China is used as absolute proof Neo-liberalism is perfect?

Joe Wylie

Thu, 14 May 2015 08:26:20 +1200

My money is on the last option.

Speculating on the next move of a low-level climate troll? In Colombia they've taken it a few clicks up the evolutionary ladder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVUt2zIvzzs

BenWilson

Thu, 14 May 2015 08:14:25 +1200

My money is on the last option. Bait and switch, uses way less energy than trolling and the bycatch is seen as a bonus.

Brent Jackson

Wed, 13 May 2015 22:47:04 +1200

So what are his options now ? Never seen again. Pick one tiny bit and argue it vehemently. Or totally ignore your rebuttal and post some completely different totally debunked factoid.

tussock

Wed, 13 May 2015 20:56:49 +1200

Re: Thumper's intolerable bullshit. Mostly from

https://www.skepticalscience.com/

1: Global temperatures have been stable since bla bla bla. No they haven't. The escalator is a stupid trick and you are stupid for using it.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/Escalator500.gif

That's also air temperature, where the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, long La Nina, melting icecaps, and recent…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 13 May 2015 10:12:44 +1200

shoot the messenger

Don't be silly, we just call you a troll and wait for the admin to kick you to the curb since you've stopped contributing anything other than recycled lies.

st ephen

Wed, 13 May 2015 10:11:14 +1200

Those with an interest in public transport in Auckland might like to use this opportunity to make a submission, given that the transport sector is responsible for a big chunk of the increase in NZ's emissions. Building more roads is not the answer to Auckland transport issues and is certainly…

Stamper Stamp

Wed, 13 May 2015 08:26:52 +1200

22 reasons why the Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming alarmists are wrong:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/05/12/22-very-inconvenient-climate-truths/

But, you will ignore the evidence as usual; shoot the messenger, and generally continue to cry wolf.
Well doomsters, 30 years later and doom is not over the horizon, and the good news is most folk have stopped…

Steve Rowe

Sat, 09 May 2015 11:23:34 +1200

"Mate – ya dreamin'!"

The rise in the wealth and middle class in China corresponds to a decrease of wealth and middle class in the West. All around the West the middle class is shrinking and trying to maintain their position by taking on ever larger amounts of debt. In…

Alfie

Sat, 09 May 2015 10:41:46 +1200

Well lookee... Tim Groser is inviting public submissions on New Zealand's post 2020 climate change target.

Russel Norman questions the government's approach to consultation.
"The Government's consultation document is seriously flawed. It treats action on climate change as a cost, whereas, in fact, failure to take action is actually the cost,"…

James Bremner

Sat, 09 May 2015 08:17:37 +1200

Bart,
Are you serious? "...your thesis that continuing the current global economic model will benefit the developing nations is simply not borne out by evidence."
That might come might come as a bit of a surprise to the 400 million Chinese that have been lifted out of poverty by the…

Steve Rowe

Thu, 07 May 2015 13:32:31 +1200

Ha ha people like Stamper and James Bremner with fingers in their ears "la la la it's not happening, it's not happening!"

Today I can sit outside in a T-Shirt, it's a nice 20 degrees with a little rain filling up the water tanks, which I am thankful for. When…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 07 May 2015 09:48:01 +1200

What you just quoted, dosn’t back your argument.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 May 2015 09:43:45 +1200

Interesting how you only plot that graph from 1975.

Perhaps because by showing only that portion of the graph you can pretend the models always fail.

Interesting to note your source http://www.skepticalscience.com/examining-christys-skepticism.html is yet another shill for big oil, although not directly he does serve on some interesting think tanks,…

Stamper Stamp

Thu, 07 May 2015 08:34:06 +1200

Hi James
An excellent summary of the reality.

The truth behind the Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming alarmism is being exposed bit by bit.

E.g. – UN Climate Change Chief Christiana Figueres:

“This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic…

John Farrell

Thu, 07 May 2015 07:57:14 +1200

Interesting...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_R._Christy

http://www.desmogblog.com/john-christy

James Bremner

Thu, 07 May 2015 04:23:15 +1200

Bart, you are wrong that rich people will suffer if the policies recommended in the name of climate change are enacted. Rich people will always be okay, they have the resources to look after themselves don't they? It is the poor people in developing countries that will suffer, and they…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 06 May 2015 21:02:57 +1200

Joule-ing pistols...
Please don’t link to...
...what's up with Watts?
Over volting amp-bitchin?

I'll be more circuitous in future...
:- )

Amanda Wreckonwith

Wed, 06 May 2015 19:50:40 +1200

Ian! Much as I love your witty comments...

Please don't link to Anthony Watts.

EVER!!!

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 06 May 2015 16:30:37 +1200

Watershed downer…
While stamper maunders on about there being no trouble in the forest – insisting we enjoy the Interglacial – I’d be more worried about a Maunder Minimum and Interstadials as well.

Further reading:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/28/bbc-real-risk-of-a-maunder-minimum-little-ice-age/
and
http://www.solarstorms.org/SunLikeStars.html

Bart Janssen

Wed, 06 May 2015 09:47:14 +1200

Sadly Nature is a paid journal but the abstract is still free and provides a good summary.

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2617.html

We show that at the present-day warming of 0.85 °C about 18% of the moderate daily precipitation extremes over land are attributable to the observed temperature increase since pre-industrial times, which in…

Stamper Stamp

Wed, 06 May 2015 00:09:28 +1200

Hi Bart
You asked if I could quote “a blog post that dubunks the increased frequency to extreme weather events predicted by global warming model and observed over the last decade during your “flat-line” “.

Well happened upon this information from the USA’s House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.…

Sacha

Tue, 05 May 2015 22:01:26 +1200

in the end they are drawing us into a game of nonsense where the cost of wasting time arguing with him is the lives of the next generation.

Yep. Shun them.
Wastes of breath.

tussock

Tue, 05 May 2015 21:19:34 +1200

Tussock, do you have an ideological problem with nuclear power?
Steven, thanks for asking.

Nuclear power is a joke. The costs have never been competitive in the slightest, unless you consider the value of the accompanying nuclear weapons to be extremely high. We hold no such value in NZ, and…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 04 May 2015 22:22:57 +1200

It won't be the greenies who'd block nuclear energy in NZ, it'd be the bean counters. I've said it before, but even a single nuclear reactor would make Think Big look like a sandcastle.

Stamper still won't tell us his disclosure of interest, so there's a good possibility he's shilling…

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 04 May 2015 20:28:12 +1200

you could forgive them for being more strident but of course they must remain professional

And Jim Salinger has more reason than most to be strident. Great to hear his voice again.

Steve Rowe

Mon, 04 May 2015 20:01:13 +1200

Yeah – what Bart said. I get very pissed off at this term 'alarmists' because looking at the impacts – and not computer models but real impacts – the scenario is pretty damn alarming. Yet scientists who present the facts around climate disruption do so in a totally non-alarming way,…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 04 May 2015 16:26:31 +1200

Yeah I’m angry that we waste time here on him.
I would like to hear his excuses when the crops fail, though...
But I suspect he'd be out looting and otherwise looking out for 'Number One' at that point...

Bruce Ward

Mon, 04 May 2015 15:44:57 +1200

Well said, Bart.

Bart Janssen

Mon, 04 May 2015 15:24:10 +1200

I want to make something clear here, because while all this silliness has been fun, there is a reality here.

If Stamper is correct a huge number of scientists have conspired to deceive the world by ignoring data and building false models all to get extra funding. If we listen…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 04 May 2015 14:57:37 +1200

Global Warming alarmists

ooo any chance you can give a blog post that dubunks the increased frequency to extreme weather events predicted by global warming model and observed over the last decade during your "flat-line".

Want to tell the families of the dead in the recent Australian weather events that…

Stamper Stamp

Mon, 04 May 2015 14:43:37 +1200

Hi Bruce

One of the more high profile Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming alarmists was/is? Dr Phil Jones of the CRU of the University of East Anglia and was concerned about the flat-lining of temperatures. He reported slight cooling in 2005 and in 2009 said in the CRU emails:
‘Bottom line:…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 04 May 2015 12:27:01 +1200

LoL

So peer reviewed scientific research is debunked by some guy on a blog site

I presume the world is also flat now and homeopathy works

Bruce Ward

Mon, 04 May 2015 10:59:33 +1200

I understand that climatologists consider periods less than 30 years as of little use in determining trends – so a 17 year 8 month period just screams 'data cherry-picked to show what I want it to show'.

"2014 ranks as Earth’s warmest since 1880" – NASA and NOAA.
"The 10…

Alfie

Mon, 04 May 2015 10:31:47 +1200

There's a good quote from Dale Vince, chairman of UK green energy company Ecotricity in today's Guardian.
“There will come a time when people will laugh at the idea that instead of producing our own energy from free wind and sunshine, we used to pay someone else to do it;…

Stamper Stamp

Mon, 04 May 2015 10:16:51 +1200

Hi Bart
The 18+ year pause in world temperatures continues to be a difficulty for the alarmists. Many of them have tried to explain it, after all – atmospheric CO2 continued to rise from approx 350ppm to 400ppm during this time.

A recent list of excuses for the pause has…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 04 May 2015 09:21:20 +1200

I think it’s more the engineering that failed us in the first instance, not the science.

No offence but the people dying of cancer really don’t care which bit of it failed.

Both points are correct and relevant.

The problem with nuclear power IS engineering. Modern reactor designs are safer,…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 04 May 2015 09:14:16 +1200

world’s surface temperature

air temperature

water temperature has continued to rise – but you wouldn't know that because your employer never gave you that data when he/she hired you to spout this drivel

andin

Sun, 03 May 2015 14:39:51 +1200

almost :-0
damn wheres my tinfoil hat... sorry baking dish...

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 May 2015 12:59:51 +1200

Just desserts...
And I’m not wearing a meringue on my head.
Is that a pavlovian response!
;- )

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 May 2015 12:56:42 +1200

may the force glow with you...
It does raise the point that nuclear power also needs a robust economy that enables plenty of ongoing infrastucture work
...and a culture that will survive beyond it's decay life while staying aware of the dangers it presents.
Not much hope of that judging…

andin

Sun, 03 May 2015 12:16:38 +1200

nuclear power also needs a robust economy that enables plenty of ongoing infrastucture work –

Could be, thats why some like it. And I'm not wearing a meringue on my head.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 May 2015 11:53:13 +1200

And this that talks about the science of reading the atmosphere to help predict large earthquakes
That is interesting!
Imagine if the processing power available to the likes of the N S A was instead diverted to a realtime atmospheric, magnetic and Earth monitoring virtual model, where local fluctuations could…

Steve Rowe

Sun, 03 May 2015 11:33:59 +1200

Sorry Steve, I was editing when you where posting.

No problem – It does raise the point that nuclear power also needs a robust economy that enables plenty of ongoing infrastucture work – another argument against it I would say.

Steve Rowe

Sun, 03 May 2015 11:02:06 +1200

Similarly the silence on the ongoing Fukushima disaster is beyond belief.

I think it's more the engineering that failed us in the first instance, not the science.

No offence but the people dying of cancer really don't care which bit of it failed.

Steve Rowe

Sun, 03 May 2015 10:43:20 +1200

Tussock, do you have an ideological problem with nuclear power?

I have two, Chernobyl and Fukushima. It is incredible that the wildfires in the Chernobyl exclusion zone have not rated a single mention in our media. Similarly the silence on the ongoing Fukushima disaster is beyond belief. Fukushima is still…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 May 2015 08:52:53 +1200

Atmosphere, utmost fear...
This was interesting as well...
http://www.nasa.gov/jpl/gps-data-show-how-nepal-quake-disturbed-earth-s-upper-atmosphere
The April 25, 2015, magnitude 7.8 Gorkha earthquake in Nepal created waves of energy that penetrated into Earth's upper atmosphere in the vicinity of Nepal, disturbing the distribution of electrons in the ionosphere. The ionosphere is a region of Earth's upper…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 May 2015 08:44:07 +1200

no particle place to be...
...an ideological problem with nuclear power

my problems with it are mostly radiological...
it is still as primitive and raw a method of extracting power
as propelling cars by continuous controlled explosions,
both present seriously adverse byproducts and consequences...

Guess I like my plankton to…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 03 May 2015 08:20:47 +1200

Don't fight it Marsha, it's bigger than both of us!
The thing with solar electric, is that it’s gigantic
Know your neighbour,
and their influence...
I found this article interesting:
Many people and even some scientists embrace a simple,
binary view of solar activity: Solar maximum is a time…

tussock

Sun, 03 May 2015 01:18:12 +1200

And of course, when I say a thousand times, I'm only counting minimal efficiency, minimal cost, current tech, 24-hour available, only plated at a sparse rate over major desert regions with maximal transmission and usage losses. You can totally multiply that by another hundred if you really wanted each person…

tussock

Sun, 03 May 2015 01:10:01 +1200

Which is why I ask: Is there a better hill nearby? Where? What does it look like?

I'm glad you asked, Ben. The future of the planet, wherein it has people still on it, is with solar heated, passively cooled, (at least in the interim) and solar electric power as…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 02 May 2015 21:16:58 +1200

Though I do notice an upward curve in your passive aggressiveness, not getting a tad hot under the collar are we?

Heh.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 02 May 2015 19:41:28 +1200

PS. Stamper: and what about Richard Muller, who once associated with Curry and Lindzen and shared their climate-sceptic views, only to later join the ranks of the ‘alarmists’?

Kumara Republic

Sat, 02 May 2015 19:35:35 +1200

Stamper: pointing out conflicts of interest of the likes of Judith Curry isn't the same as 'hating on' them.

And you still haven't told us what industry you work in. If you work in the oil industry, no shame in admitting it, it just means we can put your arguments…

Alfie

Sat, 02 May 2015 14:18:03 +1200

A visual lesson for Stamper

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 02 May 2015 12:39:23 +1200

the world’s surface temperature has remained static for some 18 years to-date

Gosh, a whole 18 years – Epic stuff!
What name shall we give this epoch of stability?

Though I do notice an upward curve in your passive aggressiveness, not getting a tad hot under the collar are we?…

Sacha

Sat, 02 May 2015 11:57:57 +1200

It is now widely accepted

amongst denialist crackpots

Sacha

Sat, 02 May 2015 11:56:51 +1200

don’t assume the so-called consensus on CAGW is correct

Pffft. Run along, you fool.

Stamper Stamp

Sat, 02 May 2015 11:22:18 +1200

Hi Bart
"But what you and your ilk fail to realise (or just blindly ignore) is they do so BY PRESENTING DATA"

Well – the problem with data is that it doesn’t always suit your story.
E.g. It is now widely accepted that the world’s surface temperature has remained static…

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 01 May 2015 22:46:56 +1200

This is the problem...right here...

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/270526/switch-to-led-lights-could-save-wellington-$2m

"Wellington City Council could make energy savings of up to $2 million a year by replacing sodium street lights with LED-light emitting diodes."

Yet,

"...Commerce Commission clause, lines companies may seek to recover lost revenue because of the savings by offering fixed contracts."

Lunacy.…

Steve Rowe

Fri, 01 May 2015 19:53:47 +1200

There ARE limits!

I never said there wouldn't be sacrifices!

John Farrell

Fri, 01 May 2015 18:09:49 +1200

Oh – and the modern theory is called Plate Tectonics – its far more sophisticated than Wegener's theory, in that it has a mechanism to explain continental movement.

You could use the story of N rays to show how the maverick isn't necessarily right.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/N-rays

John Farrell

Fri, 01 May 2015 18:06:22 +1200

You could have used Galileo,as well – or is he too long ago for your purposes?

Bart Janssen

Fri, 01 May 2015 17:44:22 +1200

By the way – don’t assume the so-called consensus on CAGW is correct.
The story of plate tectonics is the story of how one man, Alfred Wegener, came up with the theory of continental drift, only to be widely opposed and mocked. Wegener challenged the earth science “consensus” of his…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 01 May 2015 17:34:51 +1200

and that somewhere probably doesn’t have good coffee

There ARE limits!

Stamper Stamp

Fri, 01 May 2015 17:21:38 +1200

Hi William
I see from the comments that many commenters here don’t like Prof Judith Curry – pity, as she certainly is a lot more reasonable and balanced in her views than some of the skeptics.

How about skeptic and MIT Prof. Richard Lindzen?
You earlier suggested I read the…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 01 May 2015 16:09:17 +1200

There’s no political solution to the ecological crisis because the false dream people are sold is so pervasive that Green Politics has to pretend it won’t be ruined by caring for the environment.

The solution is to kick the dream to the curb, start living and be free.

Indeed. John…

Steve Rowe

Fri, 01 May 2015 11:08:05 +1200

That is the other lie, there is no evidence at all that anyone will have a drop in their standard of living. None! In fact, every initiative taken thus far has positive economic impacts and can be said to have improved the standard of living.

As Ozzie Zehner points out…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 01 May 2015 10:48:37 +1200

The economic catastrophe is a lie
Fear is the key!
a cowed populace is a controllable one...

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 01 May 2015 10:18:39 +1200

Exactly. Renewable electricity in NZ peaked at 91% in 1980 and we’ve been going backwards.

We could readily get to 100% using wind and a bit of hydro (including pumped storage, mostly retrofit on existing dams). We can then move on to replace fossil fules in static applications like coal-fired…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 01 May 2015 10:05:43 +1200

If we act decisively now, hundreds of thousands will have a dramatic

... MIGHT ...

That is the other lie, there is no evidence at all that anyone will have a drop in their standard of living. None! In fact, every initiative taken thus far has positive economic impacts and…

Tom Semmens

Fri, 01 May 2015 09:43:00 +1200

The shorter climate debate:

If we do nothing now, we’ll have a catastrophe in 100-200 years. In the meantime, I can keep my job, maintain my standard of living and hope someone invents cold fusion in a flux capacitor.

If we act decisively now, hundreds of thousands will have a…

Rich Lock

Fri, 01 May 2015 01:03:00 +1200

There's been one or two posts on this thread that have touched on the current consumerist lifestyle, with a side note of resigned acceptance. While we (as a species) all like Comfort and New Shiny Things, I think it also needs to noted that the current culture of continuous upgrades…

Stamper Stamp

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:33:23 +1200

Steve Rowe

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:08:10 +1200

Salmon farms have mass fish die off in the Sounds. Mussel factory has to close because of higher water temp...

Sardine fishery closed on the USA West coast...

Join the dots...

Steve Rowe

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:05:05 +1200

Here is a nifty animation showing the temp increase over the last hundred or so years – not hard to see the trend http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-04-17/this-has-been-the-hottest-start-to-a-year-on-record

Anything the IPCC puts out is very conservative because it is reached by consensus. Also the data they rely on is around 5 to 7 years…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:52:52 +1200

Its a thorny bush for sure
Hot damn, name like that he
should just run for President,
or burn in the wilderness...

;- )

andin

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:34:34 +1200

Solar power falls on us from the sky.

And the amount of land space we need to harness more than we’ll ever need is insignificant.

The short piece links to a thesis written about closing the Mediterranean Circle. It goes for thermal solar – heat that oil – and worked…

william blake

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:33:55 +1200

Stamper you never even read that report, you just reached for a discredited third party , I suppose that is the essence of denial.

Here is a report that is closer to home and a bit more hands on.

http://www.branz.co.nz/cms_show_download.php?id=af3b6b202e83011d176ec5e8f9b58de4ce2ac882

It may have been critiqued by Bob Jones but….

Katharine Moody

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:33:48 +1200

And when it suits them, this Government denies the opportunity for user-pays or polluter-pays options to resolve our environmental issues, e.g.;

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/68001282/wellington-joins-auckland-in-call-for-motorway-tolls

Much more satisfactory to force local authorities into a UAGC (universal annual general charge), as Len Brown has announced today – as it is the most regressive form…

Alfie

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:56:51 +1200

(I’m intrigued at the idea Stamper is paid to do this work. Earnest low-wage-petroleum-slave-writer, pocket crank, or PR maven?)

Kumara Republic

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:12:13 +1200

Ah. The “how can we even know?” line. Probably the best answer is: take a look at what the global reinsurance industry is doing with its trillions of dollars. They’ve assessed the odds and are acting on the climate change risk. The “uncertainty” argument is disingenuous. At best.

I should…

Russell Brown

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:04:39 +1200

More on Judith Curry at RationalWiki and SourceWatch. Both name-check organisations linked to the Koch Bros.

Ah. The "how can we even know?" line. Probably the best answer is: take a look at what the global reinsurance industry is doing with its trillions of dollars. They've assessed the odds and…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:09:27 +1200

Stamper Stamp: if you don’t mind being asked a personal question, what industry do you work in?
Good question. A brief trawl through Mr Stamper’s posts here indicates only one interest. FWIW, here’s Mr Stamper’s very first effort, 3 months ago

Folks – if it was a ‘no brainer’ to…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:02:42 +1200

A worthwhile read.
Worthwhile for who?
This woman strikes me as a dangerous gambler – if we listen to her and she gets it wrong (everyone else is 'out of step' after all) there is no plan B offered...

Steve Rowe

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:50:57 +1200

For anyone who thinks Solar or any other Green tech is the answer I recommend looking at Ozzie Zehner's book "Green Illusions". I know it is very appealing to think that we can have our current wasteful extravagant lifestyle and have a functioning "green" planet – it's bullshit – we…

Stamper Stamp

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:23:02 +1200

Hi William
Many people have done just that – Prof Judith Curry said:

“Evidence reported by the IPCC AR5 weakens the case for anthropogenic factors dominating climate change in the 20th and early 21st centuries.”

Her analysis can be found here:
http://judithcurry.com/2014/01/06/ipcc-ar5-weakens-the-case-for-agw/

A worthwhile read.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:56:28 +1200

Interesting……
https://www.skepticalscience.com/Judith_Curry_arg.htm

More on Judith Curry at RationalWiki and SourceWatch. Both name-check organisations linked to the Koch Bros.

Stamper Stamp: if you don't mind being asked a personal question, what industry do you work in?

John Farrell

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:29:46 +1200

Interesting......
https://www.skepticalscience.com/Judith_Curry_arg.htm

Stamper Stamp

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:18:16 +1200

Hi William
Many people have done just that – Prof Judith Curry said:

“Evidence reported by the IPCC AR5 weakens the case for anthropogenic factors dominating climate change in the 20th and early 21st centuries.”

Her analysis can be found here:
http://judithcurry.com/2014/01/06/ipcc-ar5-weakens-the-case-for-agw/

A worthwhile read.

BenWilson

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:55:19 +1200

Makes you wonder why it hasn't already been done. As with practically everything else, it comes down to economics. It's still cheaper to dig up coal.

"More than we'll ever need" might be overstating things a bit though. It isn't hard to find uses for power. A superabundance of cheap…

John Farrell

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:36:32 +1200

It's the same tactic used by creationists to argue about evolution.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:14:12 +1200

If you would like to review and critique the 2,500 scientists who worked on it, I would be interested in your analysis.

Please note: finding typos and trivial errors does not constitute a proper review

Bart Janssen

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:12:53 +1200

I am just pointing out that carrying out more investigation means the science is not settled.

Actually what you are doing – and not as subtly as you believe – is trying to deflect people from ACTING on established science by arguing that more research could be done.

It is…

linger

Thu, 30 Apr 2015 03:09:01 +1200

This week’s This American Life (episode 555) opens with the “backfire effect” … and some techniques used by door-to-door canvassers to get people to change their minds anyway. Transcript here.

Rich Lock

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:59:14 +1200

Solar power falls on us from the sky.

And the amount of land space we need to harness more than we'll ever need is insignificant.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:30:57 +1200

Hell, all over...**
an example of putting up with living situations more common in much of Asia.
and I'd hazard to guess in much of Africa and South America, hell, there are probably fetid favela not far from this fabulous resource: http://olliwaterfoodpeople.blogspot.co.nz/2010/07/guarani-aquifer-ground-water-in-south.html

:- )

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:10:30 +1200

screaming meme…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5y8PtfKA14

…this stamper stamp a.i. reminds me of the guy above, ‘Johnny-on-the-spot-with-all-the-facts-and-attitude’ – dark actors afield.

hmmm, a certain syntactical insouciance makes me think of earlier versions of the same algorithm/algaewrither program parsing this way before…

william blake

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:44:11 +1200

Hey Stampy here is a link to the fifth IPPC report on the scientific consensus on climate change.

http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/mindex.shtml

If you would like to review and critique the 2,500 scientists who worked on it, I would be interested in your analysis.

Katharine Moody

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:50:42 +1200

Which is why I ask: Is there a better hill nearby? Where? What does it look like?

Try Costa Rica;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica

Steve Rowe

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:58:30 +1200

But our challenge, if we see these as solutions, is not to just take the savings and spend them on more fossil fuels to give ourselves higher growth.

That is exactly what happens. Lower fuel costs equals more fuel usage. Growth is the problem and the solution is – no…

Alfie

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:57:50 +1200

Sorry to see you’re beginning to hyperventilate...
When you're bereft of facts, attack the man. Classy!

Steve Rowe

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:54:21 +1200

Weelll….wind power is, actually, literally, fresh air. Solar power falls on us from the sky. Tidal power is ripping around us constantly. Hydro power is fresh water falling from the sky driven by solar energy hitting the oceans. These are but a few alternate sources. They’re not enough at the…

Stamper Stamp

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:46:28 +1200

Hi Alfie
Sorry to see you’re beginning to hyperventilate; stay charm. Re-read it again and you will find I am not quoting misinformation from climate change deniers, I am just pointing out that carrying out more investigation means the science is not settled. There there now, feeling better?

Alfie

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:13:04 +1200

* this means "the science is settled" is not true

There you go again stomper. When 99% of scientists accept that man-made global warming is a fact, you'd have to be cranio-rectally inverted to continue quoting misinformation from climate change deniers.

Marc C

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:54:35 +1200

No I won't, there was NO "racist" intention and message, it was just an example of putting up with living situations more common in much of Asia. I am sick of PC nonsense. I speak freely and choose wisely. No regret on my part for what I wrote, thanks!

Stamper Stamp

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:45:42 +1200

Hi Tom
I agree – those items you mention may well turn out to have an influence on why we have been "flat-lining" temperature wise for some 18 years. The problem with these investigations for the believers in Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming is two fold:
* this means "the science…

BenWilson

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:37:19 +1200

these magical alternate energies don’t come from fresh air

BenWilson

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:26:43 +1200

I don’t think there is any evidence to suggest we are at any kind of optima.

The fact that our political economic system has been quite static for a long period now does kind of suggest it. From the point of view of getting political support, practically every direction is…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:56:41 +1200

We could be trapped in a neoliberal local maximum

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest we are at any kind of optima.

While the analogy is interesting as a thought experiment I don't think it is particularly helpful in our local political environment.

John Farrell

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:38:30 +1200

The marketing dept. of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.....

Steve Rowe

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:02:39 +1200

But how can we do growth without using more energy? What actually is a sustainable level? It’s probably a lot higher than most people realize, at the moment. Well in excess of renewable energy currently set up and available. Maybe even in excess of an enormous and sustained effort dedicated…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:15:15 +1200

I thought that was the bankers?

Nah – they were poisoned the week before.
(Sorry – it was pissing down so had to retire indoors)

BenWilson

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:11:42 +1200

In each case doing what works is more valuable than doing what fits some theory or ideology.

Slamming some ideology as being to blame for everything seems pointless to me and likely only to prevent conversation. Even the worst of ideologues can have some good ideas.

It's worth noting (typical…

Alfie

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:04:27 +1200

The power of marketing

First against the wall ...

I thought that was the bankers?

BenWilson

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:55:24 +1200

There's not really much point worrying about the beliefs of actual psychopaths. The part of neoliberalism most direly in need of deconstruction is what in it appeals to the bulk of people who aren't psychopaths. It is, after all, a solution. It claims to be able to solve some social…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:44:44 +1200

The power of marketing

First against the wall ...

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:41:55 +1200

is every solution piecemeal?

I guess that probably does characterise my attitude now.

I'd argue that there are several socially responsible, free market democracies to look at for ideas, particularly in western Europe. None of them are perfect but the best ones make no claim to being prefect.

One feature…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:32:49 +1200

It’s only a year after getting the latest most powerful gadget ever invented that we’re lamenting how it’s not fast enough to do what we want.
Even when it's perfectly capable... The power of marketing is immensely powerful. That's one thing to address in the long term.

The solution must…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:32:33 +1200

I thought Dave made an interesting point in claiming that the powerbrokers of neoliberalism were not themselves denying climate change. They just don’t care.

These guys (mostly middle aged white guys) are not actually stupid nor are they the kind of folks like stamper who only accept data that fits…

BenWilson

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:47:18 +1200

Furthering that thought, it seems clear to me that the 20th Century’s major contender as an alternative, worker oriented socialism, is not better than neoliberalism, when it comes to the environment. The environment was never its focus. In terms of its industrial goals, it has never really been any different…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:21:33 +1200

or the enemy identified

The enemy is us.

Until we recognise that simple fact nothing will change

BenWilson

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:05:31 +1200

Once again, I cite the LifeHacker article on how best to counter science denialism and other political misconceptions.

It's an interesting idea, but it does seem to be limiting its scope to "vaccinating" children against misinformation. It's not a practical manual on changing an adult's mind.

Also, much of the…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:14:23 +1200

And yet a hell of a lot of folks are actually willing to talk about long term goals for themselves and for NZ. Talk about that and you might have a chance. Rant about neoliberal conspiracies and they will walk away and vote for nice Mr Key.

Once again, I…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:03:20 +1200

And that’s worked a treat for the last 30 years, hasn’t it?

I'm sorry show me an election in the last thirty years where people actually voted for our environment as a central issue.

New Zealand elections are traditionally decided on the basis of which crowd sounds like they will…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:58:37 +1200

There’s a powerful lobby group down this way who believe that big oil will make us all filthy rich. Filthy maybe… rich, no. This group insists that the majority of Dunedinites support their view which could be paraphrased as suck it up, or frack the fuck out of it before…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:54:43 +1200

Was the Clark government equally responsible for this neoliberal road we are travelling down?

Yup. But not quite as bad as the Nats. Under Clark, Labour allowed treasury to make many of the key decisions about policy with pretty bad consequences.

But they also introduce working for families and balanced…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:45:18 +1200

And that’s worked a treat for the last 30 years, hasn’t it?

Well, I sort of implied that in my question to Bart...

Was the Clark government equally responsible for this neoliberal road we are travelling down? Will Andrew Little be any better? Will the unions be amenable to the…

Alfie

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:37:08 +1200

In a move motivated by common sense, the Dunedin City Council has just voted to divest its shares in fossil fuel extraction companies.
A council staff-developed ''socially responsible investment policy'', which governs the council's $82.5 million Waipori Fund, ended up passing, with seven councillors and Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull in…

Dave Hansford

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:17:28 +1200

History should teach you that attacking ideologies is hopeless. What works is is making the ideology irrelevant.

For New Zealand it’s as simple as deciding that “no thanks we don’t want to fuck up our environment” and voting accordingly. No impossible ideological revolution required.

And that's worked a treat for…

Dave Hansford

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:15:09 +1200

Look I get your ideological hatred of the neoliberal doctrine. But I’m sorry you are shifting into an extreme ideological position yourself and frankly that is distorting your view.

China is far from any kind of neoliberal ideology and while elements of Western Europe are neoliberal huge parts of it…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:03:27 +1200

To quote

Why don't you quote the 97% of scientists (99% of scientists in the field, ie climatologists) who think such statements are probably corrupt and certainly bollocks.

But no, you will continue to only read and quote those sources who match you preconceived (and factually wrong) ideas.

Bart Janssen

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:57:47 +1200

This approach is very appealing but I wonder how quickly you think we will get to this point?

Some days I don't think we will. We select the people to manage our country based on a popularity contest inevitably decided by the amount of money that each side can apply…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:24:09 +1200

I initially read that as ‘well Fisted’

Well Lindzen does talk out of his arse so there’s no reason to be unduly concerned…

Steve Rowe

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:57:32 +1200

We've been told not to feed you but when faced with such ignorance...

First – Lindzen is not credible https://www.skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Richard_Lindzen.htm

Second – if the warming so far is around .85C "a few tenths of a degree" then even that has triggered a runaway feedback loop of melting in the Arctic.…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:55:30 +1200

she'll be right mate, no worries...
To quote Prof. Richard Lindzen of MIT:
would that also be the Prof. Richard Lindzen from the Libertarian think tank the Cato Institute (Funded largely by the Koch bros of Koch industries – big investors in the petroleum industries)

and the same Prof Lindzen…

Stamper Stamp

Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:14:49 +1200

Hi Steve
“Still have to pinch myself that we are arguing over whether Climate Change is a “thing” ”.

Nah – there is no doubt that climate changes – it is a chaotic system which has always changed and always will. The issue is – is man-made CO2 the dominant…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Tue, 28 Apr 2015 21:12:43 +1200

“Asian”

Mmm. Maybe you should nuance that generalisation. People may take it the "Wrong way".

Sacha

Tue, 28 Apr 2015 21:05:22 +1200

Sadly the liberals have been spending their time counteracting the well funded denial apparatus for many wasted years.

And in so many other areas. The Standard is a classic example of how much energy the left wastes reacting to rubbish rather than organising against it.

Marc C

Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:59:35 +1200

What we have now is government and private enterprise, both of whom invest in science and research, increasingly trying to put pressure on scientists, to deliver the reports they so desire, which are increasingly less independent.

Have a listen to the interview Kathryn Ryan conducted with Nicola Gaston, from the…

Sacha

Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:44:18 +1200

For New Zealand it's as simple as deciding that "no thanks we don't want to fuck up our environment" and voting accordingly. No impossible ideological revolution required.

Only if NZ wasn't so thoroughly embedded in a neoliberal world system – and about to strengthen that by signing up to TPP.…

Sacha

Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:41:15 +1200

I still don't see the scientific relationship between Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming and CO2

you could take that up with a therapist, perhaps