Public Address | Cafe | Envirologue: Choose Wisely, Grasshopper: the Dilemma of James Shaw

Hebe

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 00:32:33 +1200

BUT the problem was identified before the recent deaths. It was noted by DHBs and some media. It was the reason the housing WoF bill was introduced to parliament.

The long-standing Tenancy Protection Association in Christchurch, headed by Helen Gatonyi, has been asking successive governments for a rental WoF for…

andin

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:02:56 +1200

If Key responded to that, good on him, a pity he didn’t do it sooner

And landlords can pass the cost onto renters. OFFS! So all the Cretin in Chief has to make sure of is the proles have just enough extra money for the upcoming rent increase

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:21:22 +1200

As Rob pointed out this IS a new problem.

I must have missed it, where did he do that?

100 years ago the problem wasn’t the quality of housing it was having enough houses at all.

Semantic games? But I'm meant to be the philosopher here. Unless people were actually…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:19:17 +1200

It is only recently that two things happened first is the governments sold off a lot of government owned housing stock to private landlords and second is housing prices jumped so rapidly people stopped even trying to own and switched to renting long term.

This IS a new problem.

And…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:13:47 +1200

A young Joe Wylie in old Russia,

While the confusion is flattering, I suspect you're thinking of Howard DeVoto:
"I`d`ve been Raskolnikov
but Mother Nature ripped me off"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnAoBtZScIE

Jack Harrison

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:00:09 +1200

Raskolnikov was fucked up. But he was a good guy. A young Joe Wylie in old Russia, totally fucking confused and terrified of his failings and the future of his only family, his ma and his sister. The guy couldn't handle his family dishonour.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:54:48 +1200

Actually living in a corridor is well documented in Fyodor Dostoevsky 's "Crime and Punishment."

Raskolnikov did 8 years in Siberia for a premeditated double murder. Liberal times.

Jack Harrison

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:50:58 +1200

It looks damp and wet.

andin

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:27:10 +1200

a dryish roof

OOh the future's looking rosy then!

Jack Harrison

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:14:36 +1200

Actually living in a corridor is well documented in Fyodor Dostoevsky 's "Crime and Punishment." Renting off a room with a dryish roof is a common past of Europe.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:02:08 +1200

In the past it was much worse. I know elderly people who actually lived in houses with dirt floors when they were kids.

Young people of today, they won't believe yer....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

Jack Harrison

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:50:57 +1200

HOUSING – big problem for N.Z 2015. One of Maslows basic needs, social grounding.

Bart Janssen

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:31:45 +1200

But looking at what actually happened, we are now in a situation where the government for the first time in NZ history is looking like passing a bill that could surely have been passed 100 years ago if there had ever been the political will to do so.

As Rob…

Jack Harrison

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:21:28 +1200

Renting also causes incredibly instability for a family and increases the changing of many schools for any young ones, even one change of school can be a social nightmare for a kid.

Good stable school environments are a massive incentive to buy housing for a family, the gift of a…

Rob Stowell

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:12:56 +1200

Jack Harrison

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:10:15 +1200

Housing. FFS we fucked up as something as basic as housing. That is not a sign of good national governance. H.C Labour let it go to a scandalist level because they were scared of the votes it would shed.

The feeling of wealth creation was a nice but artificial headline…

andin

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:54:52 +1200

the population is too stupid to consult experts when they’re out of their depth.

See what I did there : )) Experts in value systems? I bet they are ‘a dime a dozen’. As many as are willing to listen to them I do not know.
So lets all just…

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:52:11 +1200

Bart, only a small fraction of rentals are Housing NZ stock. Substandard housing has been a feature of NZ since forever. I grew up in a house that would be considered unsafe by today' standards, drafty, cold, damp. The back lawn was like a literal garbage tip, it took my…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:58:00 +1200

The fact is that every fact you bring up has been the case for thousands of years, just with different names, faces and places.

Obtuse again

Let me be really specific and see if I can get you to understand why your reversion to the generic philosophical argument makes me…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:19:36 +1200

PEOPLE ARE FUCKING DYING BEN!

And sadly there are people out there who aren't merely content with letting people die. If anything they'd be all too happy to pull the trigger. Not quite Anders Breivik's level, but not far from it either.

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:35:29 +1200

You are being obtuse for the sake of argument. That is not helpful or productive, it is simply a waste of everyones time.

You always say that, and it's always wrong. I'm almost never obtuse, except for humorous purposes, which are clearly signalled, for the very reason that it does…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:31:14 +1200

SOME OF WHOM HAVE NEVER DIED BEFORE!

(won't anyone think of the children?)

Bart Janssen

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 11:54:24 +1200

If an opinion poll showing that people now want Warrants of Fitness for rentals caused the government to decide that is a good idea, then I’m glad I don’t have to wait until the next election for them to “lead” us into it by putting it in their manifesto and…

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 11:14:06 +1200

And when the majority/influential minority of population is wrong, things can go very wrong.

Sure, there's no form of government that is foolproof. What democracy has over the others is the extent to which the values of the populace in general come to bear on the choices made. I don't…

andin

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 17:14:29 +1200

It’s only wrong to the extent that the population is wrong.
And when the majority/influential minority of population is wrong, things can go very wrong.
Yes there are loads of caveats when it comes to governing people, but these cant be finessed regularly into a get out of jail free…

BenWilson

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:40:15 +1200

Leaders are supposed to lead. Not be buffeted about by public opinion

You aren't going to convince me of that point just by claiming it again, or forming it as a truism. If an opinion poll showing that people now want Warrants of Fitness for rentals caused the government to…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:12:20 +1200

It shouldn’t require a martyr to make the government consider good policy.

Martyr #2 courtesy of Duncan Garner.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:43:33 +1200

It shouldn't require a martyr to make the government consider good policy.

Perhaps it's a sign of how far Cameron Slater has been thrown onto the back foot that he hasn't challenged a member of the dead child's family to a boxing match.

Brent Jackson

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:37:57 +1200

I’m always a little bit baffled when people get bitter on a PM for following polls, like popular opinion isn’t supposed to be what democratically elected leaders should be considering.

Leaders are supposed to lead. Not be buffeted about by public opinion. National recently dismissed a bill asking for Warrants…

izogi

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 15:19:39 +1200

Only some people get polled. Only some people respond to polls. People only respond to the question being asked in the poll. And most importantly sometimes people ask for one thing but need something different.

I agree. Responding to the populace isn’t usually a bad thing, but ignoring large parts…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 14:50:03 +1200

I’m always a little bit baffled when people get bitter on a PM for following polls, like popular opinion isn’t supposed to be what democratically elected leaders should be considering.

Yes but.

Only some people get polled. Only some people respond to polls. People only respond to the question being…

BenWilson

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 14:45:53 +1200

This is where I’d like to be more quick at typing, and thinking.

FWIW, I think you do fine.

The obvios way to get the maximize market share, is to bring to avoid saying anything controversial, or to far outside of the square.

Yes. Also, I find it hard to…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:56:19 +1200

How many people, besides hardline fanboys, still take the self-appointed Perk Buster seriously after he himself got perk-busted?
Someone at the Herald must have a thing for Rodney. How else to explain his flickering afterlife since suffering the ignominy of being deposed by the sorry carcass of Don Brash.

BenWilson

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:50:51 +1200

I too, would like to see changes to the electoral systom, that would lead to less poll influenced voting habits.

Just to think outside the box for a second, I'd like to see changes that lead to more poll influenced politician behavior. I'd like more signal to pass through our…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:44:45 +1200

Without his long-vanished yellow jacket I don’t believe that anyone much outside of his tiny fanbase knows or cares who Hide is. When he appeared dripping wet on Wellington bus billboards plugging his swimming endeavours for a get fit campaign, a quick vox pop revealed that some thought that the…

linger

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 04:16:30 +1200

some thought Rodney [...] was a randomly chosen “special person”. Some confusion is surely understandable when the statement “I’ve been thinking!” is noteworthy enough to serve as a title…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:31:06 +1200

Without his long-vanished yellow jacket I don't believe that anyone much outside of his tiny fanbase knows or cares who Hide is. When he appeared dripping wet on Wellington bus billboards plugging his swimming endeavours for a get fit campaign, a quick vox pop revealed that some thought that the…

Hebe

Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:04:10 +1200

…and Rodney Hide withdraws his support for the co-leader of the Green Party. Well that’s ruined everything…

That column is a dog's dinner.

Sacha

Sun, 07 Jun 2015 21:12:19 +1200

smallest wiolin

william blake

Sun, 07 Jun 2015 20:38:22 +1200

...and Rodney Hide withdraws his support for the co-leader of the Green Party. Well that's ruined everything...

simon g

Sun, 07 Jun 2015 08:06:14 +1200

Actual Hide quotes:

1) it shows they have another leader too shallow and too lazy to think and debate.

2) They live far away from the productive world sipping their lattes up the Aro Valley following the latest green fad on their smartphones.

Rodney's irony detector, broken beyond repair.

andin

Sun, 07 Jun 2015 07:45:23 +1200

And Rodders gets out his little hatchet
Twatcock!

andin

Sat, 06 Jun 2015 17:08:39 +1200

Good speech but I'm not the demographic he has to get thru too.
I hope he lives up to his words.

Marc C

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 16:50:13 +1200

As far as I know the German air force was not involved in the bombings of Serbia, perhaps surveillance and support though.

Where is your evidence the Luftwaffe participated in bombings as part of Nato or so, of Serbia?

Rebecca Williams

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:24:10 +1200

Tim! actual LOL

Rebecca Williams

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:23:38 +1200

("Word brother!" Was directed to Tom Hannah )

*darned technology*

Rebecca Williams

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:21:22 +1200

Word brother!

It's not that simple. The whole philosophy of co-leadership (feminist, consensus-based, and honoring of the Treaty) negates the idea of a discussion on the election for a new co-leader without even mentioning the other (Maori, female) leader!

Sacha

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:42:49 +1200

He’s a Scots College /Wellington High Boy

I have no idea what that implies, and I'm OK with that. :)

Lilith __

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:35:26 +1200

The leadership contest was interesting: four very good candidates, who will still be in the party and contributing in a big way. To me James Shaw was elected because he is a stand-out in the qualities needed to keep the party relevant in a testing time when an influential Green…

Lilith __

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:31:34 +1200

Because Harawira (narrowly) lost his electorate seat, the 1.42% of votes for Mana were wasted.

There’s no such thing as a wasted vote. All the votes get counted.

Since Mana did not reach the 5% threshold or win an electorate seat, votes for Mana did not elect any MP. This…

Sacha

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:07:42 +1200

This is the sort of self-reverential tosh that Greens like to imagine about themselves

#notallgreens

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 10:38:56 +1200

{Just to fact-check you, and because I could really care less about personality politics:

The Luftwaffe fully exists and has done since 1956. It's the German word for "air force", so would have to be called something like that.

Although the word "führer" was largely expunged from the language after…

izogi

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 10:27:37 +1200

It’s there method of gaining votes that lost mine.

Hi Steven. What method is that?

Amanda Wreckonwith

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 10:12:14 +1200

partly becouse I don’t buy into there drive to win ” market share of the electorate”
So do you not think they should seek to increase their share of the vote? Or is it that the 'market share' phrase is off-putting?

Amanda Wreckonwith

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:51:56 +1200

He’s a real product of middle class Wellington Central. Not sure whether that is a positive or negative for the rest of the country though.
I’m sure there are some who will be appalled, others impressed and also those who will seek to use it against him.
I really couldn’t…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:49:08 +1200

Any eagerness to be part of a Government is completely understandable

What are you basing this on?

I haven't seen a single thing from Mr Shaw indicating he plans to give up Green policy backbones simply to get a seat at the table (surely two seats or doesn't your female…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:46:15 +1200

Regarding the swing

Dude you were worng. There was no swing towards the right. The data show a failure of left leaning voters to actually vote. That is actually important because it changes the approach that should be taken towards the next election.

Failure to properly understand what happened will…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:42:22 +1200

I have made no judgement whatsoever on James’ credentials, nor on what he has to offer the Greens. I most certainly do not “hate” his appointment, as someone has suggested.

And yet when I read your post it sounded like a petulant rant from someone who didn't get the candidate…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:36:42 +1200

I quite like the idea that he is the first generation of NZers happily reared by two mothers (both teachers too I hear). He's a Scots College /Wellington High Boy and his wife is a from a well known local Wellington family. He's a real product of middle class Wellington…

izogi

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:03:30 +1200

The basic fallacy is the notion that the Greens have failed. They haven’t

And, more specifically, that they've failed because they haven't yet been at the Cabinet table, which is a very specific framing of the whole thing that elevates the value of direct power at whatever cost over the…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:17:30 +1200

whose anachronistic thinking hasn’t left the steam age?
pretty much...

Tom Semmens

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 07:54:22 +1200

That speaks to the very different nature of the core Green voter who, more than any other, is characterised by a deep ethical, philosophical and political commitment

Such an airy dismissal for the poor old lifetime members of Labour and National, with their photos of past leaders on the wall,…

Danyl Mclauchlan

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 07:06:32 +1200

I helped James with his campaign, so I’m not an impartial observer here. I can say that there was a robust debate inside the party about whether James was the right person to lead. But it centred around the brevity of his Parliamentary experience and his appeal outside urban electorates.…

simon g

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 02:11:55 +1200

90% of media commentary on the Greens is just recycled clichés. If they proposed a flat tax and privatizing the police they would still be portrayed as morris-eating, bean-dancing, sandal-sniffing hippies.

The basic fallacy is the notion that the Greens have failed. They haven't (compare Green parties in similar Western…

Hebe

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 00:40:59 +1200

It’s only Thursday ffs, he gave Key arseholes at question time on Tuesday, give the guy a chance.

(Or are you suggesting he needs to call a NATO air strike on Michelle Boag to keep the Greens relevant?)

Shaw has had a fine first week as leader, with even the…

Hebe

Fri, 05 Jun 2015 00:37:40 +1200

Really? TBH I’m pretty much over this tired approach to politics.
I would hope that James will talk to every member of parliament about climate change.
The Green Party appear to have the most sensible policy response to the problems facing us. The challenge will be to get as many…

Lilith __

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 23:34:39 +1200

Almost 58 years to the day, the Luftwaffe was once again pounding Yugoslavia. The NATO bombardment killed civilians, and destroyed hospitals and schools in its wake. What should still be keeping the Greens awake at night is that they helped precipitate the very human calamity the action was supposed to…

izogi

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 22:42:54 +1200

Since his election as co-leader over the weekend, and for long before it, Shaw has been similarly characterised by the commentariat as “modern and moderate” (as though the Greens had, until his emergence, been somehow obsolescent and intractable). [--snip--] But the weekend’s result suggests their membership might be starting to…

Lilith __

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:41:08 +1200

Regarding the swing; that depends whether you consider NZ First a left wing party. I don’t.

It’s the Winston Peters party: I don’t think he’s readily categorisable as Left or Right. Certainly nothing to base a trend on. He’s been a thorn in the hide of both Labour and the…

Tim Hannah

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:34:16 +1200

Regarding any putative sidelining of Metiria: this blog is concerned entirely with James and his selection, and what it might mean for where the Greens go next. It really is that simple…

But it isn't that simple.

The screw up on the election results doesn't in itself invalidate your arguments,…

Sacha

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:25:15 +1200

It was a serious mistake already, to offer to talk to the PM about climate change targets

It was the same tactic as Key proposing to PM Clark a compromise on the anti-child-beating law. Very good move.

Amanda Wreckonwith

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:07:35 +1200

What I have said is that it’s important that the Green membership, and caucus, consider the various suggestions that his selection should automatically begin any shift to a populist centre with great caution.
Actually you implied that the membership had already fallen for this narrative –
But the weekend’s result…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:51:22 +1200

It was a serious mistake already, to offer to talk to the PM about climate change targets, and he got the answer one had to expect. Do not even talk or negotiate with the devil, stay well clear,
Really? TBH I’m pretty much over this tired approach to politics.
I…

Dave Hansford

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:43:05 +1200

It seems some readers have interpreted from this blog that I’m the one typecasting James Shaw as some sort of centrist “wolf in sheep’s clothing”. If you read it carefully, you’ll see that I am in fact, levelling that charge at some of the commentary that has been passed this…

andin

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:39:06 +1200

A disaster is a long way down the track, well a few decades, nature moves slowly but inexorably. Human lives come and go, and being as we are, finite creatures it isnt always immediately obvious what went wrong and when. Hell! Someone only figured out just over a century ago,…

Isaac Freeman

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:25:01 +1200

Our branch backed James, with roughly the same proportions as emerged at the AGM. There was plenty of discussion, but very little of it was about left, right or centre. Nobody doubted that all the candidates were committed Greens. We were more interested in the specific requirements of the co-leader…

Marc C

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:53:24 +1200

Thanks for this critical post, Dave, it is necessary to raise the questions and issues you mentioned. But to be honest, it was not the "Luftwaffe" that bombarded Serb forces and caused collateral damage, that force had seized to exist since the defeat of the Nazis. And after all, German…

Lilith __

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:52:15 +1200

That the country veered wildly off to the right last September is a matter of record

Without wishing to labour the point, no it didn’t.
Read the stats.

The Nat vote was actually slightly down. Labour was down 2.35%. The party with significant upswing was NZF, up 2.06%, Winston Peters…

Samuel Scott

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:37:18 +1200

Also when someone is called centre/left in Germany doesn't that mean way more left than anyone in NZ politics?

Genuine question...Germany seems pretty socialist when it comes to domestic policy, and socially liberal.... just also massively zenophobic! I am basing this purely on personal experience, but my point is that…

Samuel Scott

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:32:11 +1200

Why are people assuming that Shaw is this wolf in sheep's clothing right wing assassin? I don't think he's said anything to warrant that. He might not have a track record yet, but that doesn't mean we can make one up.

Amanda Wreckonwith

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:24:45 +1200

So are there any proposed policy changes that demonstrate this Shavian push to the right? Or is Dave just knitting with the collected navel fluff from Hooton and Farrar?

Sacha

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:14:46 +1200

And once specials were counted they did not lose any MPs either.

Lilith __

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:14:26 +1200

Yes, their vote collapsed yet again last election night. They shed more than 36,500 votes – a 14.8 per cent drop on 2011 – and one MP.

Anyone want to fact check this? It’s really wrong.

247000 in 2011. 257000 in 2014. That’s not shedding any votes.

+1 to everything…

HORansome

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:13:09 +1200

I'm no fan of James Shaw, who was my third place pick for co-leader, but really, when you say:

This whole argument is predicated upon a contention that the Greens are somehow failing in the first place.

I would respond by saying your whole argument is predicated on accepting the…

Tim Hannah

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 18:57:57 +1200

It's a litle weird that a 1000+ word piece on Green leadership doesn't mention Metiria Turei.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 18:36:51 +1200

It is too late to discuss this.
The sheer persistence and hard work that the Greens put into gathering signatures for the no asset sales petition gave the impression that they were the party that genuinely valued the opinion of ordinary people. I'd hoped that Shaw's leadership might see a…

william blake

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 18:15:14 +1200

It is too late to discuss this. The party decided on Shaw, he wasn't my first choice and he has a lot of work ahead to match Russel Norman. If you are suggesting this is a watershed moment, then a large change of support was inevitable whom ever took the…

Tim Hannah

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:59:48 +1200

Yes, their vote collapsed yet again last election night. They shed more than 36,500 votes – a 14.8 per cent drop on 2011 – and one MP.

Anyone want to fact check this? It’s really wrong.

247000 in 2011. 257000 in 2014. That’s not shedding any votes.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:35:10 +1200

Well, the Yugoslav wars were fairly horrible. There is however the fact that every country in former Yugoslavia is now more or less democratic. If the West hadn't attacked, at best there might be a Fiji style pseudo-democracy in the Serb-majority territory, and at worst Milosevic and co still in…

matthew

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:22:00 +1200

Its not too early to discuss this. I for one have been a green party supporter my whole voting life (lapsed as a member) because never because of their environmental credentials. There is a significant portion of their membership and their voting base for whom social justice is far more…

william blake

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 16:23:10 +1200

It’s only Thursday ffs, he gave Key arseholes at question time on Tuesday, give the guy a chance.

(Or are you suggesting he needs to call a NATO air strike on Michelle Boag to keep the Greens relevant?)

Public Address

Thu, 04 Jun 2015 16:23:10 +1200

Discussion from blog post.