I'd like to think I do too — and even if I don't like someone, or disagree with their views, I don't get much insight or amusement out watching people being set up to be humiliated in public. Perhaps I'm just turning into a soft cock in my dotage...

I…

Craig, you really don't see any difference in having a go at people who are contextually situated as weak or as strong? You seem to have a strong sense of fairness.

I'd like to think I do too — and even if I don't like someone, or disagree with their…

Any satire being incidental.

Like the Ramones.

As far as I understand he's a new face in comedy so let's check him out before you judge his artistic iq, but what it does show is that these guys are ripe for lampooning , we have our local o'reillys, hannities and…

Yeah, wonder if anyone would be seeing the meta-satirical performative humour if Williams really was some right-wing loon pretending to be gay, or a feminist or a greenie.

Stephanie Mills wasn't pretending yet Paul gave more vast more respect to a suited serious young man with a crank economic theory…

I think it's worth asking exactly what we would be satirising in the whales case. There are a couple of angles, but I notice them frame on the eggs story was 'let's try and get…

My expectation is that there's a separation between news and performance art.

Wait, Henry presents 'news'? Has anyone told him?

I…

I think the fundamental difference is more between lampooning the 'strong', and lampooning the 'weak'. In this world, Paul Henry counts as 'very strong'.

Oh, I had to spend half an hour doing calming deep breathing after reading that. I suspect the fundamental difference is much closer to "who gives…

Yeah, wonder if anyone would be seeing the meta-satirical performative humour if Williams really was some right-wing loon pretending to be gay, or a feminist or a greenie.

I think the fundamental difference is more between lampooning the 'strong', and lampooning the 'weak'. In this world, Paul Henry counts as…

My expectation is that there's a separation between news and performance art.

I agree that I would not like my news crossing over into performance art.

The other way around? Well, I think that performance art can be a very effective way of influencing debate or eliciting comment. I found…

Oh, and what Philip said.

Erm. Surely if TVNZ fudges Henry's behaviour by saying he's an entertainer, not a journalist, then that's one thing – but Guy Williams actually is an entertainer by trade, and to my knowledge there are no professional expectations of him being anything else,

My expectation is that there's a separation…

I presume SKY will be offering this one

pay per chew

Straight from the Michael Moore/Ann Coulter playbook where you try to have two cakes and eat them both at the same time...

I presume SKY will be offering this one on pay-per-view?

where you try to have two cakes and eat them both at the same time

like

he was pretty much quoting Rick Giles

That's what I thought – surely someone twigged but it didn't seem to be Henry

Getting mightily confused here.

Which union are they in?

Libertarianism is really inspired cover for any silly argument, though – great choice.

I've heard he was pretty much quoting Rick Giles.

No, really.

False comparison alert: Williams is a comedian, not a political activist

In context, that's waaay to close to the pro forma excuse TVNZ trots out every damn time Paul Henry is a noxious cock-monkey. Hey, you can't hold him to journalistic standards because he's not really one, and Breakfast is…

For all I know, Williams might have done just as good a job with a ruse drawn from the other end of the political spectrum, and I wouldn't begrudge you chuckling a little more than me had he done so.

Oh, I know I'm going to sound like a pompous…

if Williams really was some right-wing loon pretending to be gay, or a feminist or a greenie

Now there's one I doubt they'd pull off – though with a spectacular up-sucking fool like Henry, who knows.

A shame also that Williams clearly didn't throw in any foibles of personal appearance…

Yeah, wonder if anyone would be seeing the meta-satirical performative humour if Williams really was some right-wing loon pretending to be gay, or a feminist or a greenie.

False comparison alert: Williams is a comedian, not a political activist, and the butt of the joke was clearly Breakfast's laxity in…

Williams rejected Henry's response.

"Paul Henry did not catch on to me. It was not until an hour later after the show had finished that they stripped it off the internet.

"[The news bulletin] had my story in it…

I just saw Guy Williams with Paul Henry, that is funny on so many levels.

Yeah, wonder if anyone would be seeing the meta-satirical performative humour if Williams really was some right-wing loon pretending to be gay, or a feminist or a greenie.

Funfact: setting up a website is not really an impenetrable web of deception by a reasonable measure, especially not one as laughably weak as this.

Even if it had been a much more elaborate fake, the "they had a website" defense remains my favourite part of the story.

(Actually, almost:…

Despite the bluster of the official media release that Mr Henry spotted the fake during the interview, I reckon he got well punked [...] I certainly didn't see any sign that [the] oafish host had figured out he wasn't the real deal.

Ah, but apparently [[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10650598&pnum=0|the weaker an argument is the…

Quite Ali G. Despite the bluster of the official media release that Mr Henry spotted the fake during the interview, I reckon he got well punked.

Or Borat or Bruno for that matter.

Or maybe even the Sodomobile. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

I'm starting to feel a sense of hope.

Though "libertarian" should have rung some bells after the all-powerful young Actoid Rick Giles graced our screens recently. 'Jay Pryor' was more coherent than…

I just saw Guy Williams with Paul Henry, that is funny on so many levels. This guy could be really good, he just played the thing so well and in the end Henrys bagging the free market principles he usually loves banging on about, desperately trying to help…

I tried to point out to them and others that not…

The Governor-General, by virtue of being Commander-in-Chief of New Zealand, shall have such powers and may exercise and discharge such duties and obligations relating to any armed forces raised and maintained under section 5 as pertain to the office of Commander-in-Chief.

Hey Graeme, somewhat off topic, but could you clarify…

Much can be blamed on the American 'consultants' (aka blinkered-vision bozos) TVNZ brought out, to restructure its news, in the 1980s/1990s.

A foreign egg in our nest, you might say.

Winning formula

Why and who is responsible for this dumbing down

Much can be blamed on the American 'consultants' (aka blinkered-vision bozos) TVNZ brought out, to restructure its news, in the 1980s/1990s.

It, follows the News which seems to have the same mindless sameness. Isn't this modern programming? (and I'd thank Fox) ...

There is a difference between Fox, and Fox News. Similar to the difference between Prime TV and Sky News in New Zealand.

Although in this instance, I suspect it…

Couldn’t sleep last night for the smell of oil

Yes, it's rather hard to watch each night on the News as a snippet of world information against a plethora of our (NZ) important issues. I mean, never mind, Gaza, how about the Rugby, the football, and murder and weather. For…

damn it I’ve made myself look concerned. I hate that. I’m no liberal hippie. I’m off to stare in Glenn Becks eyes.

According to ABC News' Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tapper, Glenn Beck is a voice of reason. Well, once anyway. But in contrast to Rudy Giuliani, and Eric…

Mark Sainsbury, such a jocular nice big boy seems to have trouble considering the idea that these little boys are unhappy and confused.

To be fair, he seems to have trouble considering almost any idea.

The “hug a kid with unusual hair , who you usually give shit to”’ day bothers me as a concept. According to these small boys it promotes bullying in their world and they are the…

I play it all the time

Snap! 'They call me rudeboy...'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgjF1zM6wEY

(Worth a listen cos it's actually quite damn good and I play it all the time...)

Nope, sorry, they stopped being cool a little over an hour ago.

I knew I should have checked twitter.

But The Tings Tings are cool ... right? Aren't they? Or is that over already ....

Nope, sorry, they stopped being cool a little over an hour ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN4YMli-Esw

I never get to post music videos because ... well ... as we've establish I'm a music dunce and like Little Feat. But The Tings Tings are cool ... right? Aren't they? Or is that over already ....

Edit: Damnit…

(unlike, say, Christian Cullen, who could hold his own in conversation with Wittgenstein)

Actually part-Samoan, not that that has anything to do with his rather dim bulb ...

Does anyone know if he ever did find the Eiffel tower on his trip to London?

Sorry, again.

It has. But you do still have the epithet "Moderator" under your avatar... and I guess that will have to do

We still only get 15 minutes right? Whereas the Mods get like, forever?

My 'dumb-ass' alert meter seems to go off at about 15 minutes 30 seconds. Can't we…

Actually I don't like coffee at all.

Although some coffee-coloured things, and people too, can be quite nice.

Has the power now been extended to the proles? Sniff, how will I know I'm special now?

It has. But you do still have the epithet "Moderator" under your avatar... and I guess that will have to do

Hey, I take exception to that

You would. :)

But now that you can edit a post it doesn't matter all that much if you get it wrong :-)

As like a PAS demi-god or something, I always have been able to edit posts. Which no doubt raises some questions…

Obnoxious hipster threadjack: Judah Friedlander (i.e. "Frank" from 30 Rock) who's in that DMB video played the lead in the "Eagle vs. Shark" when it was workshopped at Sundance.

And Judah appeared alongside Kevin Bacon and Cliff Curtis in the 'Film Dreamers' segment for Sundance 2005.

That's only 4 degrees…

Cynic

Obnoxious hipster threadjack: Judah Friedlander (i.e. "Frank" from 30 Rock) who's in that DMB video played the lead in the "Eagle vs. Shark" when it was workshopped at Sundance.

FWIW, Homer described Menelaus and Achilles as red-headed.

Oh okay. Just doesn't show up in preview. Or something.

Yep. I think that shows it's working. Or something.

But now that you can edit a post it doesn't matter all that much if you get it wrong :-)

I wondered how many people wouldn't get the reference and would be offended on behalf of either group (a constant issue on PAS...)

Hey, I take exception to that

Ha, Craig, that was going to be the title of the post, then I wondered how many people wouldn't get the reference and would be offended on behalf of either group (a constant issue on PAS...)

I hear you, cracker — I almost asked Glynis to lay a bit of…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrgygfwnCJ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrgygfwnCJ0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrgygfwnCJ0

How do I do the embedding here so it shows the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwmrd_T53E0

So you're asserting his dimness has to do with the non-Samoan part?

Racist.

Damn. Where's my media trainer?

"change your damn country before coming round here trying to…

I hope they don't change that name for the remake. On the grounds of acknowledging history.

Should they also acknowledge history by changing the name to Trigger for the American release (as that's what was done for the 1955 original)?

wave of domestic violence that was supposed to follow the AB's being knocked out

Actually, it's worse if they win (said before, can't be arsed digging out the reference).

And thank you, Don, that's the version that came to mind for me too.

I resemble that remark, ... hic.

I refer you to section 6 of the Defence Act 1990:

The point was that either might be surprised to be cited as having undergone a vasectomy.

And if you rush up to a stranger in the street and hug 'em, it's assault every damn time.

Cynic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMBgSfQI49E
And Campbell live last November had this segment which suggested redheads may be so endangered that by 2060[sic] there will be no more. Really? Not…

Actually part-Samoan, not that that has anything to do with his rather dim bulb ...

So you're asserting his dimness has to do with the non-Samoan part?

Racist.

In fact the Queen is our Commander-in-Chief. (Of course, the powers are exercised by the G-G).

I refer you to section 6 of the Defence Act 1990:

...You guys are SUCH kiljoys.

Re whoever it was that said way back when about the teacher in the ginga story being a…

I had a grudging sympathy for the father of the red-haired boys.

Really — I was worried that his boys were going to be beaten up for having such a pathetic dongle for a father. (Newsflash: William Golding was right. Kids are social hierarchy-enforcing douche-nozzles.)

BTW, did Close Up ever…

and this is what racism looks like today in England

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2010/may/28/english-defence-league-uncovered

My -very dark-skinned- Uncle Bill had at least 3 dogs called 'Nig' (he never called 'em nigga...)

And, waua! Re that UK cabbie – something made him maximally murderous but – the chances of some such major brainstorm...?

And in Canterbury, that means thinking and acting like Robbie Deans and his ilk.

Todd Blackadder. Not that I disagree with your point.

On the subject of this dog called nigger. I hope they don't change that name for the remake. On the grounds of acknowledging history.

In fact the Queen is our Commander-in-Chief. (Of course, the powers are exercised by the G-G).

I refer you to section 6 of the Defence Act 1990:

__ The Governor-General, by virtue of being Commander-in-Chief of New Zealand, shall have such powers and may exercise and discharge such duties and…

I'm trying to remember if I once read that was actually something of a stereotype in olde Britain. But perhaps the 'autheticity'-seeking pillock the passage was about wore the red wig because the thought Shylock was a clown, rather than because of anything to do with jewishness.

And…

Or indeed NZ rugby.

Yeah, I started along those lines, but that was so obvious even our World Cup ambassadors should have been able to work that out. Wait, what?

But, much as it pains me to say it, I'm with Rosemary McLeod here. Laidlaw's vocabulary is less offensive but his sentiments are arguably worse: Haden was commenting on a phenomenon based in race…

Even further back, I can't remember whether it's Agamemnon or…

Anyway, anyone who thinks stacking teams with 'Pakeha' players is going to guarantee better results hasn't been watching the Sevens lately.

Or indeed NZ rugby. Several of our best players over the past twenty years – Lomu, Umaga, Bunce, Rokocoko, Muliaina, Sivivatu, Nonu have strong Pacific Island heritage. Plus, y'know,…

French admit they are racist.

Are we?

Anyway, anyone who thinks stacking teams with 'Pakeha' players is going to guarantee better results hasn't been watching the Sevens lately. Go Samoa!

...our Commander in Chief is shooting blanks

In fact the Queen is our Commander-in-Chief. (Of course, the powers are exercised by the G-G).

Actually part-Samoan

Yes, but would he count as a "darkie" according to Haden? Would Daniel Carter for that matter?

There is a strong genetic component for red-hairedness among people with Celtic ancestry – but it can crop up among…

(unlike, say, Christian Cullen, who could hold his own in conversation with Wittgenstein)

Actually part-Samoan, not that that has anything to do with his rather dim bulb ...

Haden's nonsense is one thing. But would you be painfully PC if you flinched at this material coming from a noted liberal who is incidentally a Pakeha former halfback? If I were brown, I sure think I would.

Chris Laidlaw is a noted academic, ex-high commissioner to Harare and an…

Haden's nonsense is one thing. But would you be painfully PC if you flinched at this material coming from a noted liberal who is incidentally a Pakeha former halfback? If I were brown, I sure think I would.

Laidlaw though supposedly said it to highlight an issue with racism in…

It might be instructive to compare and…

unlike, say, Christian Cullen, who could hold his own in conversation with Wittgenstein

Sure, as long as Wittgenstein started the conversation with "So, what's it like to be ridden hard in a harness"

You couldn't think of a question that could be answered "neigh"?

Kyle did you just call Bernie Fraser a "darkie"? wtf man?

No, Andy Haden did. Those quote marks are there for good reason.

Sometimes it's just an offensive term. Sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it entirely depends on who you're hugging.

Consider the list below. For each one there's someone somewhere (and probably more for some items than others) who's…

Also, what's with this whole "all gingers are Pakeha" thing

@JackElder. Well, if you're referring to me, I was careful to define the group I was referring to:

I would say I don't consider pakeha with red hair to be of a different race to the other pakeha I know

…

Sure, as long as Wittgenstein started the conversation with "So, what's it like to be ridden hard in a harness"

Actually, speaking of rugby intellectuals — this whole thing started with Chris Laidlaw, who, as Rosemary McLeod says in this column, has got off scot free:

Haden's nonsense is one…

As I understood it, both

Equal opportunist then. Nothing like managing to offend everyone in a simple two sentences...

I missed Haden's actual comments – did he say that a rugby team does better without so many "darkies", or did he say that the Crusaders specifically limit the number they have?

As I understood it, both. That the reason the Crusaders do so well is that they limit the…

Also, as I've mentioned here before but now can't remember where I read it, 'ginga-baiting' has its roots in actual discrimination against the Irish.

Possibly from me, though I now think that may be false.

In recent years I have taken to positive discrimination. If for example someone uses the…

One seems offensive to "darkies", while the other is offensive to Cantabs.

unlike, say, Christian Cullen, who could hold his own in conversation with Wittgenstein

This image will carry me through the day.

So I guess it's actually a quota on Polynesian players who are also stupid.

That particular dodge might allow Haden to actually be right, and not completely contravening reality. Because so far, even with his two back-down positions ('of course I didn't mean it was actually written down when I…

Kyle did you just call Bernie Fraser a "darkie"? wtf man?

Actually, Fraser called himself a "coconut". And proceeded to say that Polynesian players need things explained to them in really simple phrases (unlike, say, Christian Cullen, who could hold his own in conversation with Wittgenstein) and that if he…

Jim Anderton said on Backbenches last night

He was good on a few things last night. But he seemed to be a wee bit frail. I hope he's OK, and its just age that is wearying him.

I don't see much historical or current evidence of racism against white people who happen to have red hair

I do. Kyle did you just call Bernie Fraser a "darkie"? wtf man?

Also, as I've mentioned here before but now can't remember where I read it, 'ginga-baiting' has its roots in actual discrimination against the Irish.

That makes a lot of sense.

Haden is divisive and a reminder of a time in our history New…

the quite bizarre father of the two redhead children

is also quite the most inspirational teacher my kids have ever had.
Just to add a little balance :)

Not that I want to defend "hung a ginga day" but wouldn't " hug a blond/brown-haired person" be more equivalent? Coconut and kike being ethnic slurs. Ginga/blond not so much.

No, that would be "hug a red-head day". Ginga's not the same as kike, no, but it's not the same…

. I don't see much historical or current evidence of racism against white people who happen to have red hair

Current? Not racism perhaps, but prejudice certainly. Teasing, harassment, bullying. Unwanted hugs. Okay, so it doesn't compare to thousands of years of oppression, genocide, slavery etc, but it's very real…

And well, I…

How's "hug a black person day", then? Would you find it acceptable?

I didn't say it was acceptable. Stupid for sure, but not on the same level as kike, coconut or black. I don't see much historical or current evidence of racism against white people who happen to have red…

John Key's initial instincts were right. Of course Andy Haden shouldn't be a bloody ambassador for the Rugby World Cup. As I believe it was Jim Anderton said on Backbenches last night, he shouldn't be an ambassador for anything.

Yeah, he's a fucking dreadful role-model but shall we tote up…

Not that I want to defend "hung a ginga day" but wouldn't " hug a blond/brown-haired person" be more equivalent? Coconut and kike being ethnic slurs. Ginga/blond not so much.

How's "hug a black person day", then? Would you find it acceptable?

My teenage (and nominally Jewish) son couldn't see anything wrong with "hug a ginga day" – until we pointed out that "hug a kike day" or "hug a coconut day" would be just as offensive

Not that I want to defend "hung a ginga day" but wouldn't " hug a…

did anyone mention that it's been around for a while?

Yeah on the Close Up stories it was mentioned that this was the third(?) year, and hence the issue – the 'rangas in question were tired of having randoms come up and hug them.

I'm not…