Public Address | Cafe | Cracker: Stoned in Charge

Kyle Matthews

Sun, 29 Dec 2013 09:31:09 +1300

Any chance you have a link or citation for the Canadian study on fatal crashes? An odds ratio of 40 sounds quite close to 5*8 (odds for cannabis * odds for alcohol), suggesting that either no interaction was included in the model, or that the interaction was small or non-significant,…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 21:04:28 +1300

shot down as "PC gone mad"

this Allied Licker shotgun is superb

Kumara Republic

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 20:11:05 +1300

In Norway drink/driving and drug/driving are very socially unacceptable, and so those who do it tend to be 'outlaws on the edge of society', so they're crashing for other reasons, not just booze/pot.

So in short, the Norwegians understand that substance abuse is a symptom, rather than a cause of…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 19:23:47 +1300

some drugs and alcohol

alcohol and some other drugs
#fify

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 26 Dec 2013 19:05:46 +1300

bluebook

Tue, 03 Dec 2013 18:20:42 +1300

I dunno I may be out of my league here because I learned my trade on nzd and trademe lol, but to me another 20yrs of health initiatives and we just may create the perfect human being! The man at the symposium from Australia said a couple of things though…

JonathanM

Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:58:42 +1300

Thanks Damian – will take a look around the ICADTS site and see what I stumble across. Much appreciated.

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Dec 2013 09:56:26 +1300

...if your mark on the world is leaving snide comments on subjects you apparently have no interest in, then I think you win.

bluebook

Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:30:22 +1300

I cut my toenails this morning. That's how important i think cannabis and driving is. I do appreciate you all want to leave your mark on the world though, it's just a shame that this will be it.

Damian Christie

Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:42:12 +1300

Hey Jonathan – thanks – it was interesting to research/write. I don't have a link I'm sorry but there might be something on the ICADTS site that can help find that study if you're really keen.

Honestly, and perhaps embarrassingly, I didn't realise that's how odds worked. If you'd asked…

JonathanM

Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:06:00 +1300

Interesting read Damian – thanks!

Sacha

Thu, 28 Nov 2013 17:56:13 +1300

I'm sure you have nothing to do with that, Ben :)

Damian Christie

Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:54:37 +1300

Jeez, talk about thread-jacked Trev.

I've heard people talk about those signs that tell you your speed, I've only seen the ones that say "Slow Down". :/

Rich Lock

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 22:36:18 +1300

The people who coded the flight control software, less so.

The acceptance testing on software like that would be brutal, however.

This crash was a result of the fly-by-wire not reacting in the manner the piot’s expected (warning: link is vid of plane crashing).

From Wikipedia:

The crew applied full…

BenWilson

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:37:28 +1300

How did this conversation end up sounding like a couple of stoned geeks?

BenWilson

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:49:04 +1300

I think I'd have to read the Android source to find out if the Location.GetSpeed() method uses the Doppler info.

Heh, yes, a naughty app for using on airlines when you're supposed to turn all that stuff off. I haven't tried any mid air tracking. There's apps for it already,…

Sacha

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:38:19 +1300

The people who coded the flight control software, less so.

The acceptance testing on software like that would be brutal, however.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:12:47 +1300

I've never seen any (portable) API to get GPS pseudoranges or doppler speeds on an Android (nor have the contributors on SO.

Various GPS devices can acquire this, but I think the information may get lost in the Android's layers.

I'd be quite interested to know of one to get…

BenWilson

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:52:02 +1300

But in practice not many chipsets / interface layers pass through the raw data to do that, so you’re stuck with whatever the manufacturer deigns to implement.

Yup, on Android all of the above mentioned interfaces are available, although a particular phone might not present them (although why it would…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:01:31 +1300

Software can use any algorithm

En principe, oui.

But in practice not many chipsets / interface layers pass through the raw data to do that, so you're stuck with whatever the manufacturer deigns to implement.

In the early days of GPS, when only limited satellites were visible, it was quite…

BenWilson

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 15:55:29 +1300

Intriguing, didn't know that was available. Software can use any algorithm, taking into account multiple sources – cell tower, satellites, and accelerometer, and possibly the map knowledge of your probable altitude (in case you've only got 3 satellites locked in), all together and smoothed. Doppler shift is probably quite accurate…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:46:44 +1300

The GPS system supports Doppler measurement of velocity rather than dead reckoning from position – certainly high-end receivers would integrate this – I'm not sure about the average phone or car GPS.

BenWilson

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:18:22 +1300

GPS doesn’t always give an accurate speed reading – ever had a look at your GPS track if using a fitness app like MapMyRun? It can be out by a few metres here and there, which must have an impact on your speed calculations, so GPS is not as infallible…

Stephen R

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:55:52 +1300

Part of being a good driver is being aware of distance and speed – if you are having to use an app to keep under the speed limit, then you are probably not sufficiently aware of your speed, and you should be paying more attention to the task at hand.…

Allan MacLachlan

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:28:36 +1300

It’s one of the cool things about GPS. You can test your speedo quite easily. I have an app that hassles me if I’m going over 100km/h on my phone.
GPS doesn't always give an accurate speed reading – ever had a look at your GPS track if using a…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:19:09 +1300

Is there another dangerous machine that you would you put people in charge of without ever reviewing their ability to use it?

Well, on a fly-by-wire airliner, the pilot, maintenance engineers and cabin crew have all been through some kind of formal licensing procedure. The people who coded the flight…

Stephen R

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:44:17 +1300

Thanks, I'll have a look.

BenWilson

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:27:52 +1300

Droid, soz. Could be on iPhone, it's called "Ulysse Speedometer". There's lots of these types of apps.

Stephen R

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:22:03 +1300

I have an app that hassles me if I'm going over 100km/h on my phone.

Is that an iPhone app by any chance? And if so, what is it called?

BenWilson

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:54:54 +1300

Speedometers are normally calibrated/designed to overread – this is apparently required in AU and the EU.

It's one of the cool things about GPS. You can test your speedo quite easily. I have an app that hassles me if I'm going over 100km/h on my phone. It's interesting to try…

BenWilson

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:48:13 +1300

It’s the millions of New Zealanders who gained their licenses in previous decades and have never since been tested on their abilities that I’m more concerned about.

I think refresher testing is not a bad idea, but accident statistics suggest that there's not going to be much bang for your…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:17:44 +1300

Speedometers are normally calibrated/designed to overread – this is apparently required in AU and the EU.

Damian Christie

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:10:40 +1300

Gah. What he's really saying is "Sure, it doesn't work as a meaningful test of impairment, but it might put people off smoking cannabis altogether."

No, I think what he's really saying is that having roadside testing might discourage stoned driving, not getting stoned. Random roadside testing for alcohol has…

Stephen R

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:47:26 +1300

At present the accuracy of speedometers for a vehicle are "within 10%" so it could be an interesting case if you could argue that your "speedo" said 100 but the cops say 110, what would be the outcome of that?.

I quite like those signs that say "you're now doing…

George Darroch

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:46:57 +1300

I think we could increase the depth of driver education and testing and improve the overall standard of competence, our driving licences are as easy to get as a cold in this country.

The increased difficulty of license tests is starting to have a marked impact on both pass rates…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:25:04 +1300

Alcohol and cannabis are huge impairments, and when you overlay them on any driver the outcomes are going to be worse.

Unless, that is, your main aim is to reduce the number of bad drivers on the road and are prepared to accept collateral damage. (playing the fool of course)…

Craig Young

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:16:58 +1300

And what about the severity of the accidents in which stoned drivers are involved? Are we talking injury? If so, what kind? Were there any fatalities? How do long-time jurisdictions take care of prevention education in this context?

Craig Young

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:15:03 +1300

Fascinating. So, can we find out more about this stoned driving legislative reform in the States? And is there any uniform measure of intoxication that can be cited in this context? How do they tackle it in other jurisdictions where cannabis has been decriminalised? What about other health and safety…

George Darroch

Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:04:53 +1300

__Many people I know who say they are against drinking and driving actually still do it, its just that they drink less when driving plus the fact that they don’t go out much.

I drive a lot 1000+ Ks a week sometimes and the biggest problem I see on the…

Rich Lock

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:46:24 +1300

In Australian states such as Victoria and Queensland, they’ve moved away from random testing towards an intelligence-based approach, pinpointing neighbourhoods and locations where drug use is more likely.

This seems a little too much like ‘stop and search’ to me. ‘We’ll concentrate on the poor areas cos there’s more stoners…

andin

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:50:08 +1300

firing guys for what happened last weekend is just wrong
Well thats what some people see as the solution to a miniscule problem. But inflate it by various means and Hey presto a ready made villian!

Just thinking

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:02:26 +1300

Passed the surprize work place drug & alcohol test last Friday morning.

I had a couple of Twisted Hop Pilsners the night before, alas two co-workers had a joint on the previous weekend .

These guys passed surprize drug tests about 6 months ago and work well.

I don't want to…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:22:19 +1300

If the tests are relevant to driving, is it possible that people who suck at that sober shouldn’t be driving even when sober?

Indeed. Also the Sausage argument. I wonder if the correlation of the number accident involving alcohol, or drugs for that matter, is more to do with the…

bmk

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:12:16 +1300

Also, as Damian said, when both alcohol and cannabis were in the mix.

Yep, that's a bad combo.

Also could totally see how the 2-3 hours later thing would be dangerous.

Russell Brown

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:02:15 +1300

I remember a long, long time watching a docu on stoned driving in Adelaide. They ran drivers through a simulation both stoned and sober. They found that on average the stoned drivers had slower reaction times but as if they (either consciously or or more likely sub-consciously) were aware of…

bmk

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:08:40 +1300

An argument could be made that better reactions do not a safer driver guarantee

Russell Brown

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:04:32 +1300

New Zealand’s head of road policing, Superintendent Carey Griffiths, says, while drink driving remains the priority, next year will see further attention given to drug-impaired driver testing, including the best approach to take.

“My preference based on what I’ve seen and know so far is a saliva-based testing regime similar…

BenWilson

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:42:26 +1300

If the tests are relevant to driving, is it possible that people who suck at that sober shouldn’t be driving even when sober?

That's always been the rub. You couldn't make the test too hard, if it was the decider, people would be failing it left right and center. But…

Stephen R

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:50:17 +1300

I prefer impairment tests that are relevant to driving, though...
Reaction time, and maybe distance/speed perception would be better ones. Can they catch a ball? But again, there’s a lot of people who suck at that sober.

If the tests are relevant to driving, is it possible that people who…

Jackson James Wood

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:10:58 +1300

It's Matters of Substance, man!

BenWilson

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:21:21 +1300

Just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L8DcjFOD1k&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_L8DcjFOD1k&has_verified=1

BenWilson

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:17:14 +1300

With impairment tests, I would think that it’s hard to get a fair baseline – some people are simply not very good at standing on one leg, for instance. Most old people struggle with it. But presumably the point is to use the test as a filter to then administer…

John Elijah

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:56:34 +1300

clever headline

Public Address

Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:56:34 +1300

Discussion from blog post.