I've been thinking about this all weekend which is not to imply my thinking has any value more perhaps that my thinking is slow and tortured.

It seems that Damian wants to talk about the people that are journalists without getting…

Think how much more pleasant public opinion of real journalists might be if the clownish columnists were removed.

"Wrong'uns don't make a rite..."

People don't generally enjoy their job if they think they're not doing it well. I too would be interested to hear more detail.

Can I still be hatin' on Lhaws, George et al? I need my simple pleasures.

Interesting findings. I'd like to know more.

A majority (82%) are happy in their work, but fewer than half (44%) rate the quality of NZ media as above average to excellent. More rate it as average to poor. This latter finding might need some thinking through–can we assume that they…

yes

Does anyone know (or can anyone comment on) how Werewolf is doing financially? Such quality work, would be great if they can make the online-subscription model work.

I am about to write…

Mea culpa; again. Sorry. The pendulum has swung too far in the recovery from sub-editing phase. Bet you've wanted to do that to a sub for decades; beloved revels in every opportunity…

This…

We also have very few news outlets, though. The Herald has a wider circulation than the Guardian.

What he said.

Yep. And we have a tiny domestic market to pay for it.

Something technology is making ever easier, although I don't see how the financial challenges involved are changing at all. Quality journalism is still going to cost someone a lot of money.

He’s brave to publish: I…

I am interested in Damien's piece because it is revealing of human frailty and emotions – the media worker as a human being – rather than an intellectualised, professional image, with the inherent contradictions and failings of chipping out a career in the…

And one thing that got lost in the shuffle: The Herald was perfectly happy…

Thank you. A remarkable (and long) piece.

Yes, how *are* those under-30 readership figures looking? :)

more than you'd think. I love Twitter for that

True. I like what Fran O'Sullivan and Christopher Adams are doing covering NZ-China trade. And for all I complain about the Herald, I do keep going back to it because the set-up of its website works best…

I think so, but then I also wonder – it's not like people can go to the competition, can they? It'll be genuinely interesting to see what happens after the paywall.

As for praising the good stuff...…

Oh, don't get me wrong. I enjoy and appreciate your practice of regularly reminding Tim Murphy and Shayne Curries that they publish Bob Jones.

The reason they publish Bob Jones is fairly simple: people…

Which is really not saying much, as anyone who has been out of the country can testify. Besides, I think 'monolithically terrible' is a misrepresentation. No-one is saying…

That was good and bad. Remember, it was the Herald's reporters who busted Slater, Cook, Wewege and Palino, and who were able to talk to Bevan Chuang and establish that she'd been horribly manipulated by them and that they'd…

No worries, Damian. After six glorious days off, I’m overflowing with moderator juice.

To take up the theme of your post, I try and let my peers know when they’ve done a good…

All it needs now is a bigger profile, if it's to be the Roger Award of NZ journalism.

They occupy space. Being published does not make them journalists any more than I, as a commenter/participant on PAS, is qualified to call myself a blogger, or a photographer because I take photographs that sometimes work…

They are in our newspapers, aren't they? They are seamless part of the product. And what about Paul Henry? Isn't he in fact a journalist?

It was interesting to run the Jonesy Awards on Twitter last year, in part for the reactions that it elicited…

I don't count them as journalists. They are opinion columnists and talkback hosts: "personalities", paid by media companies. Most of all they are former politicians who have found anther venue to foist their views upon the public. No pretence of reportage…

Little thought experiment: try to imagine (it's more a question of remembering, but whatever) what it would be like if people who don't work in…

I found your original post very interesting and thoughtful.
But you seem not to want to discuss the issues at all. Do…

I'm pretty sure nobody wants 200 comment variations on "you're so right!".

What I like so much about PAS is that people put a lot of thought into what they say. Most of us genuinely want to have a conversation. There's conflict, and occasionally…

Putting on the Stepford smile, much?

The solutions are a bit more complex, surprising, and nice than that. F'r'instance,…

Or perhaps better still, expose them ans lay them bare.

The thing is, they're writing our history, and they're setting the bar for our culture. I think it's fair enough that both those things are contestable. They belong to all of us.

I know print journalists are often…

... I don't think you'll have any problem finding one :)

That's the tricky bit isn't it. I dunno, how often do you say "excellent piece of reporting there, such-and-such"? You could argue that such…

We need another "what I really hated on the news today and why xxx is so wrong" thread for that.

So your point is, to quote Flight of the Conchords, "be more constructive with your feedback"? Or what?

My take is that Damian is ruminating on the personal contradictions inherent in working in a seductive and toxic system and culture (the media) with which every…

It's been interesting picking up on various comments (not just here, but to me personally too) that many outside the media read this as "the…

Maybe, somehow, you start to believe your survival depends on this kind of thinking...maybe, I dont know. Hope theres only a few figurative blood noses in your war stories, no actual... naaah!

The everyday life and work interactions of journalists in a brutal culture inform their thinking…

Uh, noted? I'm not sure where you…

I was referring to something nice Duncan did for me this week. I'm not defending (or attacking) his behaviour in general. And again, this aint the place to do so.

If it's all the same with you (and everyone else here), there are plenty of places, blogs, other PAS threads where you can discuss what you don't like about the…

Those protections were established in…

And elsewhere. That doesn't stop the media being badly tainted by those that are bad. Nor does it help when it seems very much like those reporters that are good end up below the fold…

Which is genuinely different. Sadly it is the consequence of working in an industry with the ability to go very public with what in any other workplace would be relatively private.

There is no-one…

Of course. There is no contradiction between the two…

Sing it, sister.

But... it IS sort of an awful paper in many respects. I mean, I'm not trying to be a dick. I haven't been corrupted by a career in media.…

I…

If it wasn't clear, what I meant by "held up against the competition" was publicly so.

An example of that would be the actions of certain members of the press gallery in hyping Shane Jones as a potential Labour leader. He had negligible support, a fact which they surely must have known, but they persisted in running the line…

You see this all the time when racism in public discourse comes up. Instead of talking about what people said and did, we end up having a pitched battle about whether they are…

Yeah that's a tricky one, and of course by even mentioning Michael Laws arguably I undo part…

I admit I have been worrying a great deal about the impact of twitter and blogging and competition for ratings in a small democracy.

It is not that I wish to curb vigorous debate, but there is a real tension between cynicism, which is…

Oh lord, it's hard to be humble, when you wear greasepaint every…

I like to think becoming a dad has made me a better person, or at the very least made me want to be.

I’d go with that. It’s definitely a lot harder…

Whether it's over the lunchtable or on the shiny, modern, highly-available, very public platforms for public bitching, we all do more of it than we should.