Public Address | Cafe | Access: The Universal Basic Income and its implications for citizenship https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362441#post362441 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362441#post362441 New Yorker. ]]> Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:15:04 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362440#post362440 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362440#post362440 yes, good luck, in our experience the real person is usually okay, so long as she can enter the necessary data into the demanding and inflexible software.
Which does make you wonder just how it is that information has been lost, since it is all entered into Goliath in order…

]]> Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:16:03 +1200 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362395#post362395 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362395#post362395 We have an appointment next week with a real person

You might need to check that they are, actually, a real live human being.

Replacing petty bureaucrats (and their ilk) with robots is well on the cards....

Hilary...rips one's undies, does it not, having to deal with these stuff ups…

]]> Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:06:52 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362394#post362394 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362394#post362394 By the way they play nice New Zealand music while you wait for hours for a Work and Income person to answer the phone. Not sure that is a good idea. You need angry, grumpy music to match your mood.

Just had another long talk to another W&I person who had…

]]> Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:57:43 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362388#post362388 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=362388#post362388 Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:49:08 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361939#post361939 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361939#post361939 It's not surprising that the Swiss referendum failed. Every political party in the country refused to support the motion and far right parties played heavily on fears of unfettered imigration should the proposal be passed into law.

However UBI supporters are cheered by the result with support doubling throughout the…

]]> Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:50:22 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361935#post361935 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361935#post361935 Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:10:49 +1200 Marc C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361927#post361927 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361927#post361927 A very disappointing result, I must say, but the Swiss tend to be conservative, so there is not such a great surprise about this there.

I see the major issue with a UBI being that people would expect to have some commitment asked of all the people entitled to it,…

]]> Tue, 07 Jun 2016 01:36:11 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361915#post361915 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361915#post361915 Mon, 06 Jun 2016 17:07:45 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361875#post361875 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361875#post361875 And then there's shit like this The past 30 years in this country has just been a chorus of arseholes trashing the social justice gains made by their parents and grandparents, just cause it could potentially ruin their chances of making money
Its time to swing that pendulum…

]]> Sun, 05 Jun 2016 08:39:47 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361873#post361873 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361873#post361873 Sun, 05 Jun 2016 07:34:19 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361868#post361868 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361868#post361868 It's interesting to see UBI referred to in that story as a "Marxist dream".

Thanks Alfie. Hard to tell whether it's sloppy journalism or deliberate spin, but the more clearly attributed quote appears to be "It's an old dream, a little Marxist."

]]> Sat, 04 Jun 2016 17:21:16 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361867#post361867 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361867#post361867 More on the Swiss UBI proposal:

It's interesting to see UBI referred to in that story as a "Marxist dream".

While the idea has been kicking around since the 16th century, the concept was popularised by Milton Friedman, the bastard far right economist who saddled the world with neoliberalism, who…

]]> Sat, 04 Jun 2016 16:32:03 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361864#post361864 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361864#post361864 More on the Swiss UBI proposal:
http://phys.org/news/2016-06-money-swiss-vote-basic-income.html

]]> Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:54:59 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361822#post361822 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361822#post361822 those Aussies like to have their cake and eat it too...

Catering by the Kelly gang.

]]> Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:21:29 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361820#post361820 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361820#post361820 Longish Australian article asks whether it could happen there
Not if you are a Kiwi working and paying taxes there but getting nothing in return, no access to welfare or representation – those Aussies like to have their cake and eat it too...

]]> Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:13:03 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361818#post361818 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361818#post361818 https://theconversation.com/could-the-idea-of-a-universal-basic-income-work-in-australia-59811 ]]> Fri, 03 Jun 2016 15:57:44 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361816#post361816 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361816#post361816 A reminder that the Swiss referendum which could guarantee an unconditional basic income takes place this Sunday. While it's widely expected to fail with polls running about 60% against the proposal, it will stimulate discussion and provide some measure of the potential support for a UBI.

The Guardian [[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/02/state-handouts-for-all-europe-set-to-pilot-universal-basic-incomes|compares the…

]]> Fri, 03 Jun 2016 15:01:36 +1200 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361672#post361672 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361672#post361672 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gReglJP6XA

I open the curtains at 7am
just so you think I'm up with the rest of the men

The whole song is quite appropos

]]> Tue, 31 May 2016 14:57:00 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361668#post361668 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361668#post361668 Tue, 31 May 2016 10:51:47 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361663#post361663 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361663#post361663 Mon, 30 May 2016 19:49:41 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361662#post361662 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361662#post361662 Yet another reason for a UBI. A US article, but also very close to home. Middle aged middle-class women without work or income and trying to keep up appearances of 'normality'.
http://www.nextavenue.org/unemployed-55-and-faking-normal/

]]> Mon, 30 May 2016 15:05:47 +1200 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361657#post361657 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361657#post361657 looking at a rental property involved the female party wearing a fake wedding ringI now have this image of, back in the day, an entire assemblage of women wandering round an open home, wine glasses in hand –
“Yes, we’re all married to each other."
"How many bedrooms did you…

]]> Mon, 30 May 2016 10:27:16 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361656#post361656 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361656#post361656 I am loath to link to anything which gives publicity to Family First...
I'm old enough to recall when looking at a rental property involved the female party wearing a fake wedding ring. Because the world was crawling with McCroskieite busybodies back then, and they really did check that stuff.…

]]> Mon, 30 May 2016 10:21:30 +1200 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361655#post361655 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361655#post361655 They argue that having parents who are married to each other is better for preventing child poverty.

Correlation is not causation, as we all know. In this case it's likely that people not in poverty are more likely to marry ... or maybe the registry office gives a bale of…

]]> Mon, 30 May 2016 09:52:27 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361654#post361654 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361654#post361654 I am loath to link to anything which gives publicity to Family First, but this piece inadvertently illustrates another argument for a UBI.
They argue that having parents who are married to each other is better for preventing child poverty. However, I would argue that if each child and adult received…

]]> Mon, 30 May 2016 09:34:21 +1200 Mandy S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361418#post361418 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361418#post361418 Wed, 25 May 2016 09:47:00 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361417#post361417 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361417#post361417 NZ makes the international BIEN news. Nice to know that NZ can still be known for some internationally enlightened policy thinking

http://www.basicincome.org/news/2016/04/new-zealand-labour-party-considers-universal-basic-income/

]]> Wed, 25 May 2016 09:45:50 +1200 krothville https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361310#post361310 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361310#post361310 Tue, 24 May 2016 11:37:01 +1200 krothville https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361309#post361309 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361309#post361309 Here is one:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/26/dutch-city-utrecht-basic-income-uk-greens

]]> Tue, 24 May 2016 11:34:01 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361283#post361283 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361283#post361283 Thank you Julienne.
With a UBI people wouldn't have to deal with WINZ for survival scraps like they do now. But there would still have to be some fair system to assess and pay out for need above the UBI. It could easily be a much nicer, more benign agency…

]]> Tue, 24 May 2016 09:44:34 +1200 Julienne Molineaux https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361280#post361280 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361280#post361280 Hello Hilary, here are a couple of links your readers might find interesting.

Keith Rankin discusses how a UBI might be introduced in a gradual way as part of tax reform:
http://briefingpapers.co.nz/2016/03/universal-basic-income-and-income-tax-reform/

And Michael Fletcher argues that there would still need to be a welfare overlay as a UBI wouldn't…

]]> Tue, 24 May 2016 09:33:42 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361277#post361277 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361277#post361277 Could we have some examples of where a UBI has been tried in a “developed” country like ours? I cannot think of a single one, and I do not know of any mainstream social policy people supporting a UBI (not that this is the only criterion).

I mentioned some in…

]]> Tue, 24 May 2016 08:50:33 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361276#post361276 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361276#post361276 Tue, 24 May 2016 08:22:11 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361275#post361275 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361275#post361275 Tue, 24 May 2016 08:13:44 +1200 Peter Davis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361274#post361274 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361274#post361274 Tue, 24 May 2016 01:46:40 +1200 Lilith __ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361264#post361264 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361264#post361264 Mon, 23 May 2016 21:35:12 +1200 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361263#post361263 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361263#post361263 Mon, 23 May 2016 20:27:21 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361261#post361261 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361261#post361261 Mon, 23 May 2016 19:58:29 +1200 Marc C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361259#post361259 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361259#post361259 "I ended up providing lots of printouts and photocopies and at the time of writing it remains unresolved. All this will, eventually, make a difference of about $5 a week to him. This system thrives on distrust, is cumbersome, punitive and bureaucratic."

And also:
__"Poverty and hopelessness are the only…

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 18:42:56 +1200 Sean_us Handley https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361258#post361258 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361258#post361258 Mon, 23 May 2016 18:33:00 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361255#post361255 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361255#post361255 One of the reasons the old Family Benefit was dumped (I heard, anyway) was that families were cashing up and using that money for a deposit on a home.

That won’t be why FB was dumped. It was termed ‘capitalisation’ and it was an absolutely valid part of the social…

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 17:46:25 +1200 krothville https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361245#post361245 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361245#post361245 Mon, 23 May 2016 16:05:22 +1200 krothville https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361244#post361244 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361244#post361244 Mon, 23 May 2016 16:04:00 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361243#post361243 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361243#post361243 Happiness is...
Change is better with an ubi
than with an uzi...
if those superior mothers
jump the gun...

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 16:02:54 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361241#post361241 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361241#post361241 Mon, 23 May 2016 15:46:03 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361240#post361240 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361240#post361240 Mon, 23 May 2016 15:42:52 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361235#post361235 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361235#post361235 Mon, 23 May 2016 15:15:25 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361234#post361234 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361234#post361234 Does that figure include National Super which forms the major part of the welfare budget?

I guess it depends how much would a capital gains tax, financial transaction tax, death duties and removal of some subsidies to the well off or businesses ('corporate welfare' as the Act Party calls it)…

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 15:12:54 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361233#post361233 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361233#post361233 Mon, 23 May 2016 15:11:54 +1200 krothville https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361227#post361227 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361227#post361227 Mon, 23 May 2016 14:51:46 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361225#post361225 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361225#post361225 Mon, 23 May 2016 14:43:44 +1200 Mark Hadfield https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361223#post361223 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361223#post361223 Mon, 23 May 2016 14:26:00 +1200 Tamara https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361221#post361221 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361221#post361221 Mon, 23 May 2016 13:25:49 +1200 Kiwiiano https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361210#post361210 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361210#post361210 Mon, 23 May 2016 12:22:25 +1200 Fen Tex https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361207#post361207 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361207#post361207 The next issue is how to create a simple system to assess need above what is provided by this theoretical UBI

If you can do that do you not beg the question of why not do it for all welfare payments? And where then, if you can, is the need…

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 12:12:41 +1200 Rosemary McDonald https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361204#post361204 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361204#post361204 Best description of potential implementation of UBI I've read. Thanks Hilary.

Question. One of the reasons the old Family Benefit was dumped (I heard, anyway) was that families were cashing up and using that money for a deposit on a home. Many families did this, enabling the security of home…

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 12:09:11 +1200 Fen Tex https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361203#post361203 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361203#post361203 Even with a small amount, people soon started to act communally, putting aside some of their UBI towards community facilities.

This reminded me of the observation much social study is of very WEIRD people (in that many subjects of studies are students in universities and therefore are of Western, Educated,…

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 12:07:27 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361196#post361196 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361196#post361196 Mon, 23 May 2016 11:51:26 +1200 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361195#post361195 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/access-the-universal-basic-income-and-its/?p=361195#post361195 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Mon, 23 May 2016 11:51:26 +1200