Public Address | Cafe | Access: Autism, ABA and being a bad mother

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 09:09:40 +1200

Sorry about all this, folks. I hope this hasn't precluded a good discussion of Hilary's excellent post. BDB won't be back. Please do carry on.

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 09:04:34 +1200

I think I'm done with being reasonable.

BDB Inc

Mon, 19 May 2014 08:34:58 +1200

I disagreed with Russell on how a community should treat each other, I addressed him the same way so that he could then see that was not as funny as they first thought.

I think your point is valid but I don't think you were heard, as you did not…

Hilary Stace

Mon, 19 May 2014 08:30:32 +1200

I echo this. And thanks Russell for your firm reasonableness.

As the comments threads show, the topics raised so far on the Access blog really matter to many people and raise some significant related issues. There are not many places where you can discuss disability-related issues generally and have vigorous…

Sacha

Sun, 18 May 2014 20:53:16 +1200

Thank you. They do. I still wish I'd caught your Foo mihi that year.

Russell Brown

Sun, 18 May 2014 20:46:55 +1200

Cheers to all the good listeners and speakers who have enriched my life. My stepdad was one of the best.

I'm glad your important day went well, Sacha. These things matter.

Sacha

Sun, 18 May 2014 20:34:43 +1200

I've spent the day with my family and some dear sailing friends of my stepfather consigning his ashes to his beloved sea. We discussed many things, including autism, without rancour. I feel sad (and angry) when people play petty games with something so profound in many of our lives.

If…

Russell Brown

Sun, 18 May 2014 19:33:40 +1200

If I disagree with your opinion I cannot be on this blog?
Do I understand you correctly?

People disagree with me all the time. But the reader community here is pretty special and it works in part because I'm here most of the time, moderating as I feel is necessary.…

Russell Brown

Sun, 18 May 2014 19:23:37 +1200

I didn’t think that I “disagreed” with anything ..merely pointed out that some of these behaviour descriptions have changed over the years ..eg autism, ADHD, dementia ..nothing more to say here about it though. All the best ..

I felt you were being insensitive in doubting the diagnosis of a…

BenWilson

Sun, 18 May 2014 17:51:09 +1200

Certainly I don't need to hear anything about a cure for my boy's troubles. The cause of most of them is clear. It's a crying shame, though, that he gets tremendous support just because what happened was an accident, when all the therapies that have done him such good are…

BenWilson

Sun, 18 May 2014 17:33:23 +1200

My son is my son, a unique individual who at 2 years old was labelled as being on the autism spectrum. Can I choose to not use that label in the future? Sure. Can I rewrite the past and stop a doctor giving it to him? No I can’t. So…

debunk

Sun, 18 May 2014 17:24:45 +1200

I didn't think that I "disagreed" with anything ..merely pointed out that some of these behaviour descriptions have changed over the years ..eg autism, ADHD, dementia ..nothing more to say here about it though. All the best ..

BDB Inc

Sun, 18 May 2014 17:12:28 +1200

If I disagree with your opinion I cannot be on this blog?
Do I understand you correctly?

debunk

Sun, 18 May 2014 17:06:17 +1200

Try reading ..
www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/30/children-hyperactivity-not-real-disease-neuroscientist-adhd

I was only trying to have a conversation. Apologies for any offence caused – not intended. No more sensitive NZ blogs for me.

Russell Brown

Sun, 18 May 2014 12:20:51 +1200

Sorry Mr Russell Brown, I did not enjoy Miche Campbell disrespecting debunk . But you now say this way of addressing other members is now seen by yourself as not acceptable or funny.

I’m going to explain this one more time. What debunk did – telling a parent that their…

BDB Inc

Sun, 18 May 2014 08:52:36 +1200

Sorry Mr Russell Brown, I did not enjoy Miche Campbell disrespecting debunk . But you now say this way of addressing other members is now seen by yourself as not acceptable or funny.

Steven C if that is the case Auckland university over value English lit skills( words)... or another…

BDB Inc

Sat, 17 May 2014 18:39:24 +1200

Before I go I would just like to suggest that maybe if this woman whom Michelle observed having difficulty with toilet training maybe you could help her with this not so small a matter.

Russell Brown

Sat, 17 May 2014 17:13:36 +1200

Honey it wasn’t funny.

This is turning into a threadjack and I don’t like the way you’re addressing me. I’m asking you to move on from the subject now.

BDB Inc

Sat, 17 May 2014 16:36:18 +1200

Honey it wasn’t funny.

Russell Brown

Sat, 17 May 2014 15:49:18 +1200

Sweetie, you did not put him on a cross -she did and then another other thought it was funny.

It rather was.

BDB Inc

Sat, 17 May 2014 15:07:28 +1200

Sweetie, you did not put him on a cross -she did and then another other thought it was funny.

Russell Brown

Sat, 17 May 2014 14:49:39 +1200

If you say you don’t like judgments and want a inclusive community should you should have put debunk “on a cross” ?

I'll take responsibility for that one. debunk, knowingly or not, was insensitive and then reacted in a silly way when I very gently suggested treading more carefully.

BDB Inc

Sat, 17 May 2014 14:35:16 +1200

If you say you don't like judgments and want a inclusive community should you should have put debunk "on a cross" ?

Have you worked with the mother you mention who is trying to toilet train both her child?

Sacha

Thu, 15 May 2014 19:59:14 +1200

Oh, honey, get off the cross

heh

Miche Campbell

Thu, 15 May 2014 18:08:58 +1200

Stephen Hawking was able to speak and write when he entered university. His motor neurone disease did not develop until he was a senior student.

Miche Campbell

Thu, 15 May 2014 18:04:35 +1200

Oh, honey, get off the cross. Others need the wood.

Virginia Brooks

Thu, 15 May 2014 00:43:07 +1200

re: 'Most of us are doing our best but parents tend to feel guilty about whether we’re doing enough for our kids – autism or not.'

Amen to that.

Great post Michelle.

Hilary Stace

Wed, 14 May 2014 22:12:06 +1200

Well said Michelle.

Michelle Isaac

Wed, 14 May 2014 20:59:28 +1200

Yes, I cringed when I saw the 'new miracle that heals autism' on TV. As you say ABA is not new, some of the principles i.e. reinforcement and positive behaviour support have been around a very long time and are already being used successfully in many special education settings.

To…

Hilary Stace

Wed, 14 May 2014 07:23:01 +1200

So more time in uncomfortable taxis at rush hour for more children with special education needs taking them further away from their local communities. Great solution.

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:36:18 +1200

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/244169/english-standards-not-dropping-union

link to steven crawfords post,

you're welcome!

Sacha

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:32:40 +1200

the Aranui PPP

bless the private sector

Sacha

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:31:06 +1200

Rob Stowell

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:30:03 +1200

Sorry for posting this here: just back from a meeting of staff and parents of Ferndale School in Chch. The Ministry of Education (with Hekia's blessing) are proposing to move it into the 'super school' at Aranui, and merge the governance of all three of Chch's Special Schools.
It was…

debunk

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:26:07 +1200

A trudge to the roots of Autism. The New York Times May 13 2013 Davuid Dobbs

"flounce"--sexist twit.

Russell Brown

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:16:12 +1200

I give up my brief encounter with Public Address..

If you're going to flounce like that when gently asked to tread more carefully, perhaps that's for the best.

debunk

Tue, 13 May 2014 22:11:28 +1200

"We know of what we speak"! Well in a parochial sense maybe. Suggest you Google GRANDIN+SYME+YARDS ..we have been research colleagues for some time and both written books though I would not be so foolish as to venture into neuroscience and neither should she – see the NYTimes review of…

Sacha

Tue, 13 May 2014 21:08:21 +1200

link?

Sacha

Tue, 13 May 2014 13:47:23 +1200

deciding what exactly is the problem that needs to be eliminated

Don't want any more useless folk like that Einstein chap, after all.

Hilary Stace

Tue, 13 May 2014 13:26:24 +1200

The next big issue is pre natal screening for autism and deciding what exactly is the problem that needs to be eliminated.

Sacha

Tue, 13 May 2014 12:48:37 +1200

much of what is discussed as illness/pathology has to be socially constructed

and related to some notion of "normal" :)

Sacha

Tue, 13 May 2014 12:47:39 +1200

I may write about the discourses surrounding adult treatment and cures along with why I personally don’t care for TMS

Sing out when you're ready. We may be able to offer a guest post.

81stcolumn

Tue, 13 May 2014 12:15:39 +1200

I don’t know if this really belongs here but I have wanted to get this out for days.

A fair proportion of the work on the pathology* of autism points to early developmental differences that become manifest later in life. There clearly has been a struggle to identify a single…

Virginia Brooks

Mon, 12 May 2014 23:36:57 +1200

I enjoyed reading your post Hilary. It raises important issues.
And I say yay for 'the bad mother' (not bad parenting).
My son was thought to be somewhere on the borderline of the high functioning end of the spectrum. He had his own opinions re parenting – he liked to…

Hilary Stace

Mon, 12 May 2014 22:44:21 +1200

I love the way Amanda Baggs challenges stereotypes about autism (I think she uses that term herself) , particularly the need to use spoken words.

Hilary Stace

Mon, 12 May 2014 22:41:51 +1200

Several of us have met Temple Grandin. She has been to NZ at least once. The time I met her was a few years ago when she gave a seminar in Wellington for Autism NZ. She was coming here for McDonalds to promote humanely killed meat, and offered to do…

Virginia Brooks

Mon, 12 May 2014 22:32:25 +1200

ok, so Amanda Bags (the woman in the above video) is controversial, ie, is she autistic or not.

I guess what I like about the video is its defence of non verbal communication and the way it introduces a different way to think about how we think.

Virginia Brooks

Mon, 12 May 2014 21:59:30 +1200

For anyone interested in an insider view of autism, I recommend Temple Grandin's book 'Thinking in pictures'. She is proudly autistic and its an illuminating read.

Another insider view is provided in the clip 'In my language'. An autistic woman describes her world view and what language and communication means…

Virginia Brooks

Mon, 12 May 2014 21:42:46 +1200

Viva la difference.

I worked at the IHC many years ago and we were taught to use ABA. It could be handy – ie, scaffolding behaviour and rewarding – but also outlandish – as when I was advised to put alum (a burning chemical) on a patients tongue to deter…

Russell Brown

Mon, 12 May 2014 21:26:13 +1200

I spent an hour or so with the now famous “autistic” animal production researcher Temple Grandin in the early 1980s talking together about handling yards for livestock, and did not find anything particularly “autistic” about her behaviour or demeanour either.

Perhaps you should read what she has written about herself.…

Mark Easterbrook

Mon, 12 May 2014 20:57:25 +1200

Sacha

Mon, 12 May 2014 19:51:54 +1200

Seeing people how they are is a gift many do not have. But belonging to a group is as natural as standing out is.

debunk

Mon, 12 May 2014 19:48:07 +1200

I am totally bemused. I have never met anyone or any child whom I would label "autistic" (perhaps because I don't understand the definition of this syndrome)and I don't see anything other than an imaginative child in Mark's behaviour description of his 5 yr old, and charming quote about the…

Mark Easterbrook

Mon, 12 May 2014 15:32:13 +1200

Great post Hilary.

From my experience, parents want other people to love their autistic child for the perfect human they are, not the person they are not, or could be.

This, times a million. On Saturday, while parents of 'normal' children were no doubt running around doing Saturday morning sport…

debunk

Mon, 12 May 2014 13:23:47 +1200

Before the birth of the label "autistic" in the 1980s developmental psychology courses at university referred to such children as "withdrawn" or as "slow developers" – certainly less judgemental and less "clinical" decriptions for such a multivariate personality state..same with the all encompassing term "dementia" which can have 20 or…

Angela Hart

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:53:44 +1200

"I don’t want to criticise other parents as every autistic child and every family experience of autism is different. But such stories can be harmful. They reinforce the view of autism as something abnormal and undesirable, and legitimise treatments that may or may not have any scientific validity."

Substitute disabled…

Public Address

Mon, 12 May 2014 11:53:44 +1200

Discussion from blog post.