Posts by Don Christie
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Hmm. This discussion's really veered off the tracks, so I'll get off before it crashes completely. :)
Well, yes. As I said, I am not trying to offend - especially during Passover. Doh!
Off to back my bags for my flight to Europe tomorrow.
Fair and balanced reporting will ensure but the Fins will, once again, be deprived of my ripping repartee :-)
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They're not integrating very well into a liberal, western society
Juha, some are, some are not. It's just too sweeping a statement. The fact is, the ghettoisation of minorities comes down to many factors, not leasts of which are fear of persecution by more powerful sections of the population. Other factors are economic, religious and a need to be with one's own. Orangemen in Glasgow, Irish in Boston, Italians in Island Bay, Muslims are not alone in that trend.
So, why do folks insist on singling them out? It feels to me that part of it at least is because we need a new bogey man, now that the USSR is no longer.
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Has anyone else thought of the irony behind Iran releasing British soldiers
I take that back. Russell was, of course, miles ahead of me.
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But anyway, do continue and explain how the Muslim Holocaust you're hinting at is in progress.
Oh come on. That's about as willful as misreading as you could make.
So is this:
You may also find that xenophobia and discrimination in Europe - and elsewhere - isn't exclusively aimed at muslims.
Juha, I probably have a lot more respect for you than you have for me, but please re-read what I have posted here and stop putting words in my mouth.
Thinking about your point though, if I were an Arab and Muslim, I would be very concerned about the huge and indiscriminate loss of life in Iraq, the recent attacks on Lebanon and the ongoing status of Palestinians, the general denigration of my faith in mainstream western circles and wondering just where this might be leading to.
Has anyone else thought of the irony behind Iran releasing British soldiers after just two weeks whilst the USA keeps prisoners without trial for years on end in very dubious conditions in Guantanimo. That makes us (you and me), who are part of Western society look like complete hypocrites in others' eyes.
(oh, and I stand by "Les Arabs" as well, at least in the parts of France I have lived in).
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i also have euro family history tied up with all that so i just like those things not to be forgotten.
Well they are not forgotten, other than by a few right wing non-academics.
This part of the thread began way back with a few folk putting forward the contention that Islam was somehow a "worse" religion than others and that many on the left have become apologists for fundamentalist Islam.
Given the violence inflicted on humanity by largely Christian societies in the last 100 years (WW1, WW2, Hiroshoma, Holocaust, Cold War, Communism, Fascism) I find this line of thinking very hard to swallow. Hell, we have even put a goodly amount of effort and money into encouraging Islamic fundamentalism in order to buy off the owners of oil production and further our geopolitical causes.
I also think is used as an excuse to discriminate against Muslims in ways that are counter productive and possibly similar to the way that other minorities (whether Quaker, Jewish, Catholic, Protestant) have been discriminated in the past.
merc, given your time in France you will be well aware of the long long history of discrimination against North Africans or "Les Arabs" as the French spit out the phrase. Similar attitudes are found in Spain, Greece and the UK. Juha, I have not visited Scandinavia but I too have spent plenty time in those other countries. The awful end point that Europe has come to time and time again in its history, culminating in the holocaust, can not be allowed to be repeated.
I fail to see why this is a contentious position.
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I wonder if we could have a gentle persons' agreement to quit linking to the comments thread at kiwiblog. It is just too distracting. Bit of a bugger that because it is good to get David Farrar's views on things which are never boring and sometimes surprising.
A propos Danyl and Craig's little stoush above I did notice this gem from the "ban Danyl" thread:
Craig
"I carelessly left ONE LETTER out of Darryl's Christian name"
Heh, that was funny and I presume deliberately so.
And he still leaves ONE LETTER out of Danyl's Christian name :-)
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Yeah, it was certainly an us or them situation for Finland at that time. Having Russia as a long term neighbour one side and Sweden on another is always going to focus ones mind in a particular way - throughout the ages.
Anyhoo...
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oh, and I think the Fins are nice too, some of my best friends etc...
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Comparisons to Europe in the 30s are hyperbole.
Agreed.
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You seem to think Finland persecuted the Jews as well, which isn't true.
No I don't. That was supposed to pass as humour, dubious though it may have been. Fighting on the side of the Nazis, for whatever reason, was not a good sign though. You probably do know more about Europe than I but don't assume total ignorance on my part either.