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Speaker: The problem of “horror tenants” is dwarfed by that of horror houses

120 Responses

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  • Hebe, in reply to Lilith __,

    Thanks Lilith. I would have been rude.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Hebe,

    Thanks Lilith. I would have been rude.

    It's always interesting when others tell you about your "own" personal experiences. ;)
    Must say though ,because we decided to take this house off the market for now, I'm fascinated to think that we should get the chimney swept (after not using it for several years now) if we rent it out to a friends daughter.Although other has put in a pump that sends roof heating through walls into living room and bathroom, it is not a branded heat pump, it's a Barnzy heatpump. The plan was, she wants to move to Aux after a couple of things get sorted and her job is waiting. We thought, give her the spare car, leave in washing machine and drier ,leave the gas heater (which frankly ,heats our house completely, small house, fully insulated). leave fully furnished except for a bed in Master room and Fridge and Art. Is asking $100.00 too much for an 18 year old? We figured having some responsibility was healthy for her and bills are only gas and power and water so she could pay those. Might have to have a rethink if that's not good enough. Maybe a WOF for the people involved and not the house?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Sorry about that, patronising was not my intention.

    And I had forgotten that Christchurchers mostly couldn’t have woodburners at all, which was almost as rude as forgetting that the draughts may have been recent additions to the house. So a bit of rudeness in response would have been entirely justified.

    New Zealand's housing stock is old and cold in general, not just in Christchurch. Working in this field, and genuinely wanting to see NZ housing improved not only for health reasons but also for basic human dignity, I try to find some middle way to challenge statements that don’t align with evidence on particular housing improvements, exposures or interventions, without being patronising, or didactic, or over-simplifying, or over-technicalising, or a thousand other ways of being a dick. I’m not necessarily very good at that, but I still have to try. When I was responding to Hebe I was going for something closer to “what was true for you isn’t necessarily true for everyone else”, but clearly I flubbed that.

    Sofie, the “Barnzy"* heatpump you talk about – is that a heat transfer system rather than a heatpump?

    On the WOF front: it’s still a way off yet, and I believe the proposal is for it to be introduced in a rolling fashion so that a WoF will only be required at next tenant turnover. So if your friend’s daughter moves in now (before any WoF is introduced), you won’t need to get a WoF for the property unless you decide to relet it after she’s gone to Aus, and if the WoF is introduced in the meantime.

    On the broader matter of similar situations, though, there are still questions to be answered. For me the biggest is, what happens if a property fails a WOF? Is the property able to be let at all, or are there limits on who it can be let to (e.g. no accommodation supplement, or no children, or no elderly – all sorts of problems with each of those, regardless of good intentions). Does the landlord incur a fine for letting a house without a WOF? What if (as in Sofie’s example) there’s no meaningful profit involved? The RTA doesn’t apply if a property’s let to family members, but does still apply if it’s friends, so there’s no outs there.

    P.S. The draft WoF is available here in case anyone wants a look. N.B., numbers 15 (security stays) and 16 (curtains) have so far been removed from the list post-testing.

    *Is Barnzy a brand, or a South Islandism I’m not familiar with?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Cheers Lucy. Appreciate your perspectives on these issues.

    ETA: interesting list, thank you. I boggle that curtains are being taken off! Glad that visible mould is counted.

    ETA2: I should really get onto my landlady about the bullet-hole in my bedroom window. It dates from a previous tenant, and she knows about it.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart,

    Interesting to see rental property WOF taking shape, Lucy. It looks to me like it should apply to all properties and could be a useful tool for buying/selling.
    I think it’s a pity that in NZ we are stuck with this old housing stock which is not designed for NZ’s climate or our current ways of life. We have a 1907 wooden villa perched on a ridgetop in Brooklyn, Wellington, and have just spent a small fortune on a few renovations. It’s incredible how fast the exterior seems to deteriorate – windows that were replaced and repainted only five years ago already have paint peeling off.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    *Is Barnzy a brand, or a South Islandism I’m not familiar with?

    No its his name . :) I have seen what this girls mum is renting up North. She is a Solo Mother with 4 children at home at the mo. Her eldest is returning to work in Auckland . She cannot afford to take on the new responsibility to get a car for work travel and live and survive adequately. I have the space for her to live in comfort without feeling as inadequate as she was starting to feel before she had to return north temporarily. Our help will help not only her but her Mother who is a dam hard worker (when it comes seasonally) I figure if I can live in this house, she should feel very lucky .
    That's it really, We will help her no matter what any rules are.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Yeah, I can't remember now why curtains went, but they went fast - before full testing even.

    I've been watching landlord message boards out of curiosity to see which points would cause the most outrage (as opposed to the different questions of whether it should exist at all, and fears of requirement creep or more council bureaucracy). Security stays were well up there, with some people concerned they'd prevent egress from fire. The hot water temperature requirement annoyed some people, along with the need for the property address to be clearly identifiable (that's so emergency services can find the place easily). Plus some discontent about the need for handrails on all steps accessing the house (that can be quite an ask in parts of Wellington...). There didn't seem be much fuss about the rest of it though, which was something.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Oh lucy, sorry , forgot, the heating we have transfers from the roof via fan into rooms when temp gets to a certain tempo adjustable and on timer and with readout in hall. I'll ask him to explain when I see him later

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    No worries, Sofie, I know the type you mean. It'll be a DIY install of a positive pressure ventilation system. I'm crossing my fingers for some funding to research health effects of ventilation systems later this year :-)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart,

    Is that one of those HRV type systems, Lucy? When we were considering heating options for our house around 12 years ago we did entertain a visit from a HRV salesperson but I found him really, offputtingly aggressive and pushy; and I was very unconvinced about the underlying science as well, in that I couldn’t see how it would keep the house warm in winter without any heating unit in a Wellington climate.
    We went for heat pumps, of which one is brilliant and makes for a very comfortable living space, but the other is a bit underwhelming, partly because of the shape of the room. When I worked at home, I found that I got too cold at my desk which was around the corner from the heat pump and with large windows on two sides; and I had to use an additional ceramic column heater to keep warm.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    This sounds like a case where heating systems were adequate but the state of the house cancelled out any benefit.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart,

    Quite. It sounds horrid.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Yes it is DIY but its his design unique to our house. We make just about everything in this house, from furniture, design and heating and renovation, so now we are moving to solar and a heating plenum chamber from the sun and a log burner, we have moved on from the old one he designed years ago.but this house does stay dry, warm and free of condensation. To eliminate those things helps the house right there. Plus the new house has been designed to collect and move warm air around the rooms upstairs and down (and back up again). He gets a buzz out of making things work positively and this idea he's workin' on has already started to work without it being complete yet.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    I think we need to do better than this:

    A Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment spokeswoman said under the Residential Tenancies Act 1986, landlords must ensure the premises are maintained and comply with all health, safety and building regulations.

    However, tenants should also be careful when choosing a property and ensure there are no existing issues before signing a tenancy agreement, she said.

    "Tenants are encouraged to find a property that not only meets their needs and lifestyle, but does not have any existing issues like [being cold and damp].

    Source.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Indeed. It's particularly underwhelming since our rental market tends to revolve around summer, and if a landlord's gone in and done a quick clean and paint, it can be hard to tell that the property's got a mould problem.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • b.douglas,

    Lucy, great to read your posts. It is very difficult to impossble to do a kind of due diligence on rentals. landlords and propmgrs are vague at best of times re facts. let alone how do u test for mould or cold in one viewng, and in daytime. unfair and unreasnble to expect a tenant to ascertain this. also secondly i had to ring police emergncy 111 due to burglar.the police couldnt locate the numbr of my rental so i spent nearly 10mins explaing where it was.if itd been a fire i hate to thnk what mightv hapnd.Appallng.

    Since Jun 2014 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to b.douglas,

    if itd been a fire i hate to thnk what mightv hapnd.

    To be a little flippant, it's much easier to find a fire than a burglar :P

    More seriously, I'm disturbed that landlords considered clear house numbering to be an unreasonable imposition.

    As for curtains, without them it doesn't really matter how good the heating system is because all the heat gets lost to the cold glass.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Lilith __,

    “Tenants are encouraged to find a property that not only meets their needs and lifestyle"

    "Lifestyle" being Ministry-speak for socio-economic level?

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    To be a little flippant, it’s much easier to find a fire than a burglar :P

    lol

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • b.douglas,

    Thanks Mathew I agree fire wouldv been easier! re numberng I had a tenancy with 3 separate numbers on the contract, lettng agent reciept and then the bond. Turndout it was not a legal dwellng as many rentals with unclear numbrng may be,and or tax dodging rental incomes. I am considrng compiling a submissn to Ministr Nick Smith for changes to the RTA as I feel its weightd heavily towards landlords in many areas and find several sections substantially unfair to tenants . If anyone has a good knowledge of the ResTenancies Act or any ideas and feedback re their experience as tenants Id appreciate learng more and any feedback I can put to Parliament to request changes to the Act. If interestd would you reply and I can supply my email. Thanks Beth.

    Since Jun 2014 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • b.douglas,

    Also a big Thankyou to Public Address and Elinor for this much needd discussn on the way 'renters' are portrayd in the mainstream media and treatd and demonisd in a propertyboom with no capitalgains tax. Tenants have become the new beneficiary bashng recipients.

    Since Jun 2014 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Any unchallenged obsession with rental income from leveraged rentals seems strange to me. What proportion of peiple are landlords? What proportion are renters?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Sacha,

    What proportion of peiple are landlords? What proportion are renters?

    And how many are "Mum & Dad Investors"? #Kidding

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to b.douglas,

    If anyone has a good knowledge of the ResTenancies Act

    I know the RTA backwards (or like to think I do, anyway), if you have any specific questions. I think you can PM me on here, or my email address is easy to find in a google search.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 585 posts Report Reply

  • b.douglas,

    Hi Lucy, Thanks I very much appreciate your generosity! I will google your email aftr the wkd with a few questns,any feedback greatly valued. Thanks again Beth.

    Since Jun 2014 • 5 posts Report Reply

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