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Speaker: Low-quality language on immigration

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  • Moz,

    It's possibly useful to remind ourselves that in many cases overseas investors are not buying for cash returns so much as they are buying security. Through diversifying but also because often investing in their home country is extremely high risk. They're buying into our legal system and government as much as they're buying into our housing market. Something our lords and masters might want to keep in mind when playing fast and loose with the legal system.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1198 posts Report Reply

  • WH, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    The irony being that a year ago, we were in London – a city whose economy would collapse as it drowned in its own shit if every migrant was sent home tomorrow. As so often happens, it’s easy to throw around “low-quality language” on the people you choose not to see. Certainly didn’t see any English Roses pushing the cleaning cart in our hotel – but I sure could have brushed up on my Polish conversation if I had any.

    I think we’re slowly getting to a better place on immigration; unfortunately the housing crisis and Auckland’s traffic woes have been a big part of that. I tell anyone who’ll listen that house price binges flow into the cost of living and discretionary income, personal financial security and retirement, the competitiveness of our exports and the balance of payments.

    As you allude to, the real discussion is about the effect of widespread change in our society. It’s not about diminishing those who come to live here or those who wish to do so.

    Since Nov 2006 • 785 posts Report Reply

  • Lynn Yum, in reply to william blake,

    I think it was pointed out at the time already, but Labour's methodology is completely flawed if they want to use THAT to show foreign buyers are buying up all the house. What about non-Chinese sounding foreigners?

    If Labour simply cut-and-pasted their research methodology from Vancouver, then they should have know there was a backlash in Vancouver as well, where some people tried to bury the problem by crying racism and then keep on pretending everything is fine. (Kind of like what National is doing, really.)

    The right way to demonstrate foreign ownership is driving up property price is to first find official, credible statistics on foreign ownership of property. Take the government to task on that, or find some better way to measure it.

    So Labour either is too lazy to refine the methodology used in Vancouver, or they just want to point the finger at certain people and demonise them. I don't know which is worse.

    Auckland • Since Dec 2016 • 38 posts Report Reply

  • william blake,

    Sorry to be unclear, I was stating that Labour's horrible piece of racism was about property ownership rather than immigration.

    Since Mar 2010 • 379 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to william blake,

    looked to specifically be about racism to me.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • william blake, in reply to mark taslov,

    Mark do you blame the housing shortage on immigration, overseas property investment or racism?

    Since Mar 2010 • 379 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to william blake,

    Mark do you blame the housing shortage on immigration, overseas property investment or racism?

    I can take that:)

    I blame not the housing shortage, but house price inflation, on greedy people. They are competing to borrow huge amounts of money from foreign banks. They are importing debt. And then they work stupid hours to service it, at the expense of spending time with there children, in the hope of making money from capital gain. What the Labour Party did was about as scientific as guessing that people with Chinese sounding names are responsible for other people who choose to buy crappy vacuum cleaners from smith and smith.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to steven crawford,

    Thanks Steven. and if I may also append.

    I won’t pretend not to understand why liberal Labour voters might want to distract from the party’s appeal to racists, especially now the white supremacists have been effectively mobilised in the US. Perhaps like Jacinda Ardern they feel “not comfortable” about the racist rhetoric, but that’s the line in the sand the party drew, and as strongly worded or adequate as “not comfortable” might sound to pale ears, it’s a world away from “give nothing to racism”.

    Anti-racists condemn racism without a second thought – certainly without need to couch their actions in apologism and distraction, others seem to be more equivocal, highlighting the difficulty some have condemning racism. I’d wager even some of the lowest of Labour’s ‘low quality immigrants’ could explain this to William.

    So for now we'll keep pretending that every time a Labour MP blows the dog-whistle that it's them being "careless" and just treat everything else they say as kosher.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to william blake,

    Sorry for my slow reply there, I'm still quite busy getting through the works of Sheila Jeffreys whose aggressive transphobia was recommended to me as an antidote to Gloria Steinem's less pronounced transphobia. Steven covered what needed to be said I felt.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh,

    I find it very hard to take Labour's "Chinese-sounding names" episode as motivated by anything other than racism, or as anything but one incident in a series of Yellow Peril-style outbursts. This is one reason I find it very hard to trust Labour.

    James Shaw's apparently sudden enlightenment on issues of racism and xenophobia is also difficult to accept given the Greens have also often jumped on that same Yellow Peril bandwagon.

    I have very big doubts about TOP's immigration policy, but points 5 and 6, refugees and exploitation of migrant workers, seem good, if somewhat vague and lacking in detail. I have talked to their Ōhāriu candidate at Johnsonville Market*, and I have been somewhat reassured. There are lots and lots of ways that policy could go really wrong, but what Jessica said about refugees and our refugee quota was good, and, well, the conversation generally was positive. Of course, she wants my vote...

    What bugs me about the immigration issue is that whether we're repatriate Kiwis or new immigrants or any other kind of migrant (we have three kinds of migrant in my family), we seem to be getting the blame for a whole bunch of social and economic ills we couldn't possibly be responsible for. We were overseas when all these issues developed. International students didn't set up dodgy PTEs, and migrants wouldn't be so vulnerable to exploitation if they could see more viable options. But bashing migrants is easy, finding real solutions to the problem takes more work.

    *which I mention because I have only seen two Ōhāriu candidates there. Both have talked about how they like the cultural diversity at the market and throughout the electorate - yet one represents a party that wants to drastically cut immigration.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    James Shaw's apparently sudden enlightenment on issues of racism and xenophobia is also difficult to accept given the Greens have also often jumped on that same Yellow Peril bandwagon.

    Can you give examples of this? It's certainly a gross misrepresentation of James' own views. I think he deserves an apology, frankly.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    we've failed to educate residents to fill those roles.

    I think that NZ, like many "Western " nations, has quite deliberately dumbed-down the schooling system. The lowering of standards so that everyone can have a degree , and a debt to go with it, seems to have been the policy.
    If the purpose was a docile , dull , distracted , and deluded populace, the better to rob the people of anything and everything, and ultimately to render common folk expendable . . . . well, nice work so far.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to steven crawford,

    I blame not the housing shortage, but house price inflation, on greedy people. They are competing to borrow huge amounts of money from foreign banks. They are importing debt. And then they work stupid hours to service it, at the expense of spending time with their children, in the hope of making money from capital gain

    You only used the word "stupid" once. Stupid is . . . .
    :-)

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Farmer Green,

    dumbed-down the schooling system. ....
    If the purpose was a docile , dull , distracted , and deluded populace, the better to rob the people of anything and everything, and ultimately to render common folk expendable . . . . well, nice work so far

    Didn't Nikki Kaye just scrap the 'docile system'?
    Oh hang on, I need a vowel movement...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7892 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Farmer Green,

    I’ve got one of the dumb dumb degrees:-) that’s why I’m not frightened to say things like:

    If someone with a foreign sounding name pays a million dollars in offshore cash for a shitty little house in Auckland, good! That means whoever sold that house now has a million dollars to pump into sustainable farming or if the Green Party gets there way, an array of 3D printers.(just kidding) 3D printers are toys that make stupid little plastic things, and they are nothing more than the consumer end of digital manufacturing.

    I am heartened to hear murmurs coming from educationalists, to start teaching children how digital technology works, instead of giving them iPads. And more importantly, to introduce opensorce product development collaboration into the primary school curriculum.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to steven crawford,

    I am heartened to hear murmurs coming from educationalists, . . . . .

    Perhaps the acquisition of literacy and numeracy could be considered as a "resource" in teaching how 1s and 0s work.
    Just a thought.
    Without wishing to appear disheartening , I am sure that thinking "educationalists" have been murmuring for several decades, but they seem to have had no effect in halting the decline . . . . the "education" system is not run by educationalists.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to steven crawford,

    cash for a shitty little house in Auckland,

    What I don't understand is why any young NZer would claim to want such a thing, to the point where they think they are missing out on something that ought to be theirs by right. I agree that we all have bestowed upon us , by society at large, the right to lose our shirts, but this just seems ridiculous.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • WH,

    Apropos nothing, this Hillary Clinton speech about the dangers of enabling cranks and extremists is going viral.

    David Duke was a wizard.

    Say no to wizards.

    Since Nov 2006 • 785 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I gotta stop reading these "conspiracy theory" commenters. Half of them are optimists, thinking a collapse will be good , and the other half live in fear of it.
    Too confusing!


    http://thesaker.is/the-neocons-are-pushing-the-usa-and-the-rest-of-the-world-towards-a-dangerous-crisis/#comment-391111

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to WH,

    Say no to wizards.

    Especially economic wizards.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • WH, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Ceterum censeo wizards esse delendam.

    Since Nov 2006 • 785 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Farmer Green,

    they think they are missing out on something that ought to be theirs by right

    cos that is what all the older folk they hear from claim is so.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Perhaps the acquisition of literacy and numeracy could be considered as a “resource” in teaching how 1s and 0s work.

    Literacy and numeracy yes. But it’s even better to be multi-lingual, and wait for it, multi numerical system capable. So that’s having an ability to translate dozens of engineering data from Americans. Numerical system diversity isn’t very trendy but it’s practical.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    Numerical system diversity

    What does that include? Unit conversions should be straightforward enough (though not doing them has resulted in several expensive accidents). Are there any other tricks to handling American-sourced data (oh, other than their idiosyncratic date order convention)?

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Sacha,

    all the older folk they hear from

    I guess that we are all allowed to listen to whoever we choose . . . .aren't we?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

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