Speaker by Various Artists

Read Post

Speaker: KICK IT! Quartered

56 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 Newer→ Last

  • giovanni tiso,

    Both games were absolutely extraordinary today, incidentally. Two for the annals.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Both games were absolutely extraordinary today, incidentally. Two for the annals.

    Agreed, was in a bit of shock after each of them, for different reasons. Never thought the Dutch had it in them to come back from 1 down to Brazil, amazing effort.

    And Ghana, my god Gyan will be having nightmares about that for the rest of his life.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 948 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    @Gio

    Maybe, maaayyyybeeee, if Suarez hadn't been the cocknuckle who got the South African goalie red-carded for a "trip", then I could believe that what he did was self-sacrificing. Instead I just think he's a cheating fuck.

    How was his instinct (and in fact both of the players on the line do it) be to put his arms up and bat the ball away. It's football, you know that hitting the ball away is cheating, plain and simple.

    Then the punishment was fair in a way. Sent off and misses the next game and Ghana had a chance to score a goal. Of course they went from 100% chance of a goal to <100% chance (and of course they missed that chance). So was it a real punishment? Suarez misses what could be the biggest game of his life, of course if he didn't cheat he'd be missing the game too.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    How was his instinct (and in fact both of the players on the line do it) be to put his arms up and bat the ball away. It's football, you know that hitting the ball away is cheating, plain and simple.

    Because not hitting the ball away is putting your country out of the World Cup. He broke the rules, but he broke them honestly.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Firstly, the trip that you said wasn't a trip was in fact a trip. Secondly, how is palming the ball away on the line different from hacking a player down whom you think might be about to score? They're both fouls, they're both calculated, they both attract penalties. So long as they're sanctioned, they don't qualify as cheating, sorry. Rugby has penalty tries for these kinds of situations, whereas football has a penalty kick plus an automatic red card. But neither the rugby player who commits a professional foul leading to a penalty try is a cheat, nor is the footballer (Australia did it twice in the tournament!) who saves the ball on the line. Sorry.

    ETA: Keir said it better.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    He broke the rules, but he broke them honestly.

    Bullshit. He cheated because it was in his team's best interest to do so. That doesn't make it 'not cheating'.

    In the end, blame FIFA. Any set of rules that encourages that - which it does - is in need of repair.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Committing a foul is not cheating. Really, guys, this is pretty basic stuff.

    (Although I suppose then you'd have to explain why Henry and Maradona are deemed by many to have cheated when they scored by handling. Besides the fact that scoring in that manner, as opposed to preventing a goal, is an important nuance, I suspect it comes down to the referee not having seen those infractions. Not owning up to a foul of that nature does come pretty close to cheating. Suarez didn't attract attention to what he had done but - unlike Kewell - didn't question it when he was sent off. It was all pretty above board.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Really, guys, this is pretty basic stuff.

    Whatever, bro. I'll happily listen to arguments against, but implications that I'm just too dim to understand?... C-ya!

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Sorry if that seemed condescending, but it's not really much of an argument: unless you can show me why it's different from hacking somebody down, as I say. I think you'll find that nobody in the football press is going to call Suarez a cheat. And maybe that means that there's something wrong with football. But maybe it means that it's part of the code that the sport lives by.

    It's not enough to say it: you must argue why fouling is the same as cheating.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • tim kong,

    With apologies for the length of the post....

    Hello! Welcome to WRITE THE FUTURE - the World Cup 2010 text adventure! Who would you like to play as?

    >FRANCK RIBERY

    [Now playing as FRANCK RIBERY]

    You are in a room. There is a young woman.

    Please confirm you are over 18 years of age.

    >YES

    Please confirm the young woman is over 18 years of age.

    >CHANGE PLAYER

    Who would you like to play as?

    >RONALDINHO

    [Now playing as RONALDINHO]

    You are in a room. There is a television.

    >LOOK AT TELEVISION

    The World Cup is on. Brazil is playing.

    >GO TO GAME

    You cannot do that.

    >LEAVE ROOM

    You are in a street in Milan.

    >GO TO SOUTH AFRICA

    You cannot do that.

    >CHANGE PLAYER

    Who would you like to play as?

    >DIDIER DROGBA

    [Now playing as DIDIER DROGBA]

    The Ivory Coast is playing Portugal. You are on the bench.

    >LOOK

    The game is in progress. You are on the bench.

    >PLAY GAME

    You cannot do that.

    >GET ON FIELD

    I don't understand.

    >GO TO FIELD

    You cannot do that.

    >STAND UP

    You feel a pain in your arm.

    >LOOK AT ARM

    Your elbow is broken. You cannot play in this game.

    >CHANGE PLAYER

    Who would you like to play as?

    >FABIO CANNAVARO

    [Now playing as FABIO CANNAVARO]

    You are in Johannesburg. You are playing a team no one has ever heard of. You are captain of one of the most celebrated defenses in the world.

    You hear a dull buzzing hum.

    >LOOK

    The dull buzzing hum is coming from the crowd.

    You see several anonymous men in white shirts. They have scored a goal. Your team is now losing.

    >RUN

    You are too old to do that.

    >PLAY DEFENSE

    You are too old to do that.

    The dull buzzing hum has been replaced by boos and laughter.

    >CHANGE PLAYER

    Who would you like to play as?

    >WAYNE ROONEY

    [Now playing as WAYNE ROONEY]

    You are in Bloemfontein.

    >LOOK

    You are playing Germany. You are wearing a red shirt.

    Germany has scored a goal. The score is now 1-0.

    >GET BALL

    You cannot get the ball.

    Germany has scored a goal. The score is now 2-0.

    >GET OPEN

    You cannot get open.

    England has scored a goal. The score is now 2-1.

    >YES! PLAY FOOTBALL

    England has scored a goal. The score is now 2-1.

    >WHAT?

    I don't understand.

    >WHAT IS THE SCORE?

    The score is now 2-1.

    >YOU SAID ENGLAND SCORED ANOTHER GOAL!

    The score is now 2-1.

    >BUT THERE WAS A SECOND GOAL!

    The score is now 2-1.

    It is now halftime.

    >REVIEW FIRST HALF

    Germany scored two goals. England scored two goals. The score is now 2-1.

    >THE SCORE SHOULD BE 2-2!

    The score is now 2-1.

    >BUT ENGLAND SCORED TWO GOALS! WE SHOULD BE TIED!

    The score is now 2-1.

    Germany has scored a goal. The score is now 3-1.

    >WAIT! WE STARTED THE SECOND HALF?

    Germany has scored a goal. The score is now 4-1.

    >THIS GAME SUCKS!

    The score is now 4-1.

    >CHANGE PLAYER

    Who would you like to play as?

    >CRISTIANO RONALDO

    [Now playing as CRISTIANO RONALDO.]

    You are in Cape Town.

    >GO NORTH

    There is a Spanish person in your way.

    >GO EAST

    There is a Spanish person in your way.

    >GO WEST

    There is a Spanish person in your way.

    >GO SOUTH

    There is a Spanish person in your way.

    >SCORE GOAL

    You cannot do that.

    >DIVE

    The referee tells you to get up.

    >DIVE

    The referee tells you to get up.

    >DIVE

    The referee tells you to get up.

    >DIVE

    The referee tells you to get up.

    >WRITE THE FUTURE

    You visualize a majestic glittering statue. You visualize a glamorous movie premiere of your life story. You visualize international world celebrity.

    Spain has scored a goal.

    >QUIT

    You have decided to quit.

    Thank you for playing WORLD CUP 2010 - WRITE THE FUTURE!

    >ERASE DISK

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Suarez broke the rules, and was penalised in the correct way: penalty, red card, suspension.

    So if "cheating" is defined as "commiting an offence", then he cheated, and so do most players in most games. But if it includes the notions of intentionally deceiving, and getting away with it, then clearly he didn't get away with it, and could hardly have expected to.

    Rugby players "cheat" whenever their team has a sizeable lead (more than 3 points) late in the game, and the opposition are desperately trying to get 5 or 7 points. The defenders will give away 3, usually with a yellow card. It's simple arithemetic, playing the odds. Suarez did the same.

    There is, of course, the penalty try option, but that is usually controversial and sparingly enforced. In football, there could be an argument for a "penalty goal", but as in rugby, that would just shift the location of the grey area and the debate.

    I don't like the way Uruguay won, at all. But it's a lesser crime than constant cynical fouls on gifted players, of which there were plenty in the Brazil-Netherlands game.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    So if "cheating" is defined as "commiting an offence", then he cheated, and so do most players in most games. But if it includes the notions of intentionally deceiving, and getting away with it, then clearly he didn't get away with it, and could hardly have expected to.

    He did get away with it, in the sense that his actions created a situation where his team could only be better off than had he not (ie exchanging a guaranteed goal-against for a possible goal-against). Still, - as I said - that's FIFA's fault.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    >WRITE THE FUTURE

    You visualize a majestic glittering statue. You visualize a glamorous movie premiere of your life story. You visualize international world celebrity.

    Spain has scored a goal.

    >QUOTE FOR TRUTH.

    You are in a dark thread.

    But it's a lesser crime than constant cynical fouls on gifted players, of which there were plenty in the Brazil-Netherlands game.

    >KICK OPPOSITION PLAYER FROM BEHIND

    You get away with it.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    That was quite brilliant and surely deserves some linky love.

    (I'm hoping he'll do Robinho now that the Nike 'stars' are all out.)

    He did get away with it, in the sense that his actions created a situation where his team could only be better off than had he not (ie exchanging a guaranteed goal-against for a possible goal-against).

    And again: how does this differ from hacking down an opposition player whom you're quite certain is going to score?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • tim kong,

    @gio - Sorry for no link love - I got sent it in email - with no attributions

    Definitely didn't mean to take any credits for it.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Ah, no, sorry, I wasn't suggesting that. But it's been doing the rounds so I thought I might point to the source. It really is quite brilliant work - I basically learned English on computer adventure games so the bits where Drogba tries different prepositions to get on the field gave me powerful flashbacks.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I think you'll find that nobody in the football press is going to call Suarez a cheat. And maybe that means that there's something wrong with football. But maybe it means that it's part of the code that the sport lives by.

    What a disgustingly corrupt endeavour, then, that you seem so accepting of.

    Deliberately and calculatedly infringing in that situation ought to result in the harshest penalty against the team as well as the player. In my book, forfeit the game on the spot, ban the little shit for the rest of the tournament (not one game) and fine the team's management for good measure. If you wanted to go further, forfeit the rest of the tournament.

    Ghanains have every right to be furious with Sebb Blatter and the other ethically relaxed elderly gents who set the sport's standards. Spectators - especially children - need to see that such behaviour in life and on the field is not OK; not some laddish bending of the rules to be forgiven with a rueful grin or a slap on the back (or bottom if you're Argentinian). Far from "heroic" unless there's some wrinkle of Latin culture that makes cheating manly somehow.

    Nothing in particular against football. I'd like to see the same in rugby and any other sport where the whole of a tournament can turn on that sort of morally bankrupt behaviour.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    And again:...

    What is this, Enter the Argudrome?

    ... how does this differ from hacking down an opposition player whom you're quite certain is going to score?

    I'm not sure it does. Therefore, what?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    In my book, forfeit the game on the spot, ban the little shit for the rest of the tournament (not one game) and fine the team's management for good measure. If you wanted to go further, forfeit the rest of the tournament.

    I say automatic goal, and automatic red card. At least that way you'd actually be costing the infringer more than the infringed against.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    It's the sheer bad faith of the move that offends me most. Not sporting, so why should the response be? Imagine trying to be a hero of the streets back home if you'd just cost your team the game or the tournament.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    What is this, Enter the Argudrome?

    Heh.

    ... how does this differ from hacking down an opposition player whom you're quite certain is going to score?

    I'm not sure it does. Therefore, what?

    If you're willing to call the hack-downer a cheater, then I don't think you're going to find a lot of people willing to talk football with you, is all. Not that that's a problem per se.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • tim kong,

    I think the recap from simon g says it best, in regards to the Suarez red card.

    Yes, it was a foul - which you can call cheating.

    But refs don't send off every player who commits a foul, there's varying levels of discretion applied.

    The foul/cheating act, blatant as it was, was handled by the ref in the manner which the rule book says, the same rule book that everyone plays by.

    If the Ghanians had hit the penalty, and won - "justice" would have been served. And no-one really would have been having this conversation.

    I think Suarez and his coach are arrogant prats with a piss-poor attitude to sportsmanship and their conduct and interviews after the game are pathetic and ill-considered. But then I thought the same of Henry, after his double tap with the arm.

    But the onfield act was dealt with in the only way possible.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    The foul/cheating act, blatant as it was, was handled by the ref in the manner which the rule book says, the same rule book that everyone plays by.

    So change the rules.

    But the onfield act was dealt with in the only way possible.

    Wrong.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • tim kong,

    The foul/cheating act, blatant as it was, was handled by the ref in the manner which the rule book says, the same rule book that everyone plays by.

    So change the rules.

    Sure - that's fine - FIFA can change the rules. But what would you have them change it too?

    Does every act of foul play become an act of deliberate cheating, and automatic red card offense?

    But the onfield act was dealt with in the only way possible.
    Wrong.

    Oh?

    I thought a red card and the resulting penalty were the way that a foul such as Suarez committed was the only existing way to deal with it.

    Kewell committed the same act - judged to have stopped the ball with his hand/arm on the line. Result - penalty to Ghana, red card for Kewell, Kewell suspended for one match

    No-one here was calling for Fifa to change the rules then were they? (I haven't checked the threads.)

    Happy to stand corrected though if there is some other consequence that the ref could have imposed.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Sorry guys but Gio is right and the infringement was dealt with absolutely correctly. Suarez was sent off and Ghana given the opportunity to go through with whast should have been almost a formality. The fact is that Gyan got himself carried away when he really should have taken a second breath and done what he did 5 minutes later, put it in the back of the net.

    It's sad for Ghana but it doesn't alter the fact that the game was totally in their own hands.

    For those calling for penaly goals, bans and summary execution where would you draw the line? Suarez batted the ball out but what about players raising their hands and the ball being deflected, running acoss the goal and having it ricochet off upper arms and a host of other scenarios.The ref has to make the call there and then and the current rules give him the ability to do that, it's simple and clear.

    Feel really sorry for Gyan, this will sit with him for the rest of his life but it doesn't mean that the current rules are wrong.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 948 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.