Speaker by Various Artists

Read Post

Speaker: Are there opportunities within the Government’s childhood obesity plan?

243 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 Newer→ Last

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to B Jones,

    Mmmm, seafood.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP,

    Sardines for everything!

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2448 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to JacksonP,

    Sardines for everything!

    Hey I'm no dietician but I reckon there's enough protein in that bassline to sustain an entire family for a week on just one listen.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I actually tried sardines on wholegrain toast last night, for a laugh, just to see if it measured up to fish and chips. I had forgotten how tasteless sardines are, and how stinky. I think I'd have to mix them up with something like tomato or chopped onions to actually enjoy them. Or probably I'd pay the extra 20 cents and have fish I like more, salmon and/or tuna, pre-mixed. On the flipside I don't personally like fish and chips that much. The enjoyment is more about a cultural touchstone than because this is food I think is boss. It's basically too rich, and at the same time too unsatisfying, so I tend to eat too much of it, feel sick, and wonder why I did it.

    Afterwards, I had misgivings about teasing Katherine, and feel like apologizing. Everyone was being obtuse all round and it derailed a thread on a real issue. Mind you, I don't think the thread had much legs until it got all het up anyway, which goes to the sorry state of a lot of internet discussion.

    Katherine's had her first team beating courtesy of PAS. I feel a bit dirty. I don't want to relitigate any of the fight.

    Can we reboot back 24 hours? Megan had a bunch of suggestions that were alternatives to using the tax man to attempt population wide dietary regulation. I thought: Yes, they're alternatives, and and no, they probably won't have any really effect either. Not on obesity, that is, although all of them would lead to improved quality of life for a lot of people.

    To me, getting people to actually eat better is a mystery. Being in control of at least 2 other human being's food intake (my children), it's clear that there is quite a wide variability in what can be acheived by any measures. They are raised in the same house with the same parents with the same rules and the same food. But they have completely different eating habits.

    In other families with children that we know, there is variability too. It could be tempting to tut-tut at the obese Samoan mum whose daughter was my eldest's best friend when he started school, and has steadily got more and more chubby as the years since kindergarten have passed. But none of her other kids are like that. There's just the one. Having spent a lot of time with them, it seems to me like there's no real problem with the type of food offered. The problem is just that this one child likes to eat a lot more than the others, and it's available. For her, the problem isn't what she's eating, it really is how much.

    I don't know how you control that - it's not a problem I've faced, for me it's been the opposite problem all along.

    Perhaps some of it is a lack of any genuine will to do anything about it anyway. All of the women in the family that I've seen so far have been overweight to obese. Perhaps they would choke on the hypocrisy of trying to keep food under lock and key so that the little one can't overeat? Perhaps they don't even think being overweight is a bad thing, perhaps it's cultural? I don't think so, it's just a perhaps. From overheard comments, most of the women would prefer not to be fat. But it might not be a high priority. If so, there's a huge cultural momentum to shift, if we come to an earnest conclusion that something must be done (which I think is still not settled, nor ever will be).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to BenWilson,

    Yes, they’re alternatives, and and no, they probably won’t have any really effect either. Not on obesity, that is, although all of them would lead to improved quality of life for a lot of people.

    Most of your post drives me nuts because it assumes that if you're obese you can't, by definition, be fit or healthy. That's bullshit. It also assumes that ALL obese people are fat because they eat a lot. That's also bullshit. And the third bullshit thing is that everyone seems to think that it's perfectly possible to become thin, long-term, when most studies show that long-term thinness through dieting is as rare as hen's teeth AND, moreover, yo-yo dieting actually has WORSE effects on your cardiovascular health than, y'know, not dieting and going for regular fucking walks. (I'm not talking out of my ass, either: if you would like peer-reviewed journal cites, I can hunt them out.) So the ideas in Megan's post would improve the *health* of people, and make them *happier*, but they might still be fat. SO WHAT?

    I'll be apologising to Katharine as soon as I become a big prog rock fan, btw.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    I might be missing something

    Unfortunately I must agree.

    How about a debriefe then? Why did Katharine deserve to be bullied.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I think it is time we treated obesity (awful blaming word) as an impairment or even a chemical addiction for some people and respond with a version of the social model of disability. (Whereby people have impairments but society disables - therefore society as a whole has a responsibility to address the obesigenic /disabling environments, policies and attitudes which construct 'obesity'.)

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to steven crawford,

    How about a debriefe then? Why did Katharine deserve to be bullied.

    I don’t think she was being bullied, but the fact that she was being rounded on by everyone else was a factor in giving her a rest.

    She was, however, being obsessive and insulting to others and would not take the hint when I suggested she ease up. It needed to stop.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to steven crawford,

    Why did Katharine deserve to be bullied.

    When someone is saying things that are genuinely upsetting to other people - and I hope it's clear to everyone that this is an 'emotionally hot' topic for some people - it's not the person who responds who is causing the problem. This is Missing Stair stuff - the social expectation is that the people getting hurt will keep quiet to keep the peace. If they do speak up, they're condemned for causing trouble. They didn't: the person who hurt them did. If people behave badly, it's okay to treat them as if they've behaved badly. Katharine was asked to tone it down, she didn't.

    But this is not a thread about moderation.

    Ben's point about the chips being energy-dense food was basically what I meant by "fuelling" people. The chips are going to stop you feeling hungry. Your kids aren't going to be asking for more food in an hour. That's the thing about high-fat foods. (I have hypoglycaemia. I spent years trying to manage it using 'complex carbohydrates'. Turns out by far the best thing when I'm having a sweaty spinny meltdown is fat.) So it's not about 'nutrition', it's about 'energy'.

    But the thing is, biological organisms are complex. If it was as simple as 'energy in, energy out', then everybody's results would be the same. But, to take things to extreme for a moment, if you put me and my hypoglycaemia on the same food-exercise balance as someone with PCOS, you'd get vastly different results. And every individual is going to be somewhere on that continuum.

    But if you concentrate on exercise, there'll be health benefits for most people, whether or not they lose any weight. Surely that's preferable.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Danielle,

    Most of your post drives me nuts because it assumes that if you’re obese you can’t, by definition, be fit or healthy.

    Yes, I already write at far too great a length to have to reiterate points like that I reject that assumption constantly. I'm just moving ahead there with "Given the assumption that you want to reduce obesity". It's not necessarily true, and I lead in with that on the thread, but one can discuss how one might do that on the conditional assumption that it's true. That could be a productive discussion. Note, even in the post you're criticizing I end with the very condition you are stating that I make as an assumption:

    if we come to an earnest conclusion that something must be done (which I think is still not settled, nor ever will be).

    Reframing the discussion as "What can be done to get people healthier, wrt to their exercise and eating habits" is also worthwhile. The thread kind of presumes we're in agreement that getting the Government's Childhood Obesity plan working better is the topic of discussion, but sure, challenging that presumption doesn't hurt.

    It also assumes that ALL obese people are fat because they eat a lot. That’s also bullshit.

    It is. The line between too much and not enough is wafer thin. To maintain an exact weight, you have to keep adjusting, more if you're below, less if you're above. And you only have to be a little above for a sustained period for the cumulative gains to build. Which is extremely hard to judge, because there's massive variability bewteen individuals in how much is absorbed from a quantity of food, and how much is output in a quantity of exercise, and their BMR. For people that eat identical food, the weight they will reach can vary hugely.

    None of which refutes the point that the amount you eat affects your weight. It just means that comparing between individuals is not robust.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Heh. I love that while I was typing, I managed to say the same thing as Russell, and the same thing as Ben.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    But if you concentrate on exercise, there’ll be health benefits for most people, whether or not they lose any weight. Surely that’s preferable.

    It's very difficult to lose weight through exercise alone.

    But perhaps we could all go out and enjoy the sunshine today.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    I had a vision yesterday of Bruce Willis walking through Harlem in Die Hard 2 with a racially inflammatory sign on his back. You can't blame people for responding but someone had to do everyone concerned a favour and make him stop.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Russell Brown,

    It’s very difficult to lose weight through exercise alone.

    Your sentence is three words too long. :)

    Also, thanks, Ben: that clarified things and now I am driven slightly less nuts. By your post, anyway. ;)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But perhaps we could all go out and enjoy the sunshine today.

    Remember to slip, slop, slap.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/288389/antarctic-ozone-hole-grows

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Emma Hart,

    If it was as simple as ‘energy in, energy out’, then everybody’s results would be the same.

    Sort of. It is that simple, but finding how much energy went in and how much went out is very difficult and inaccurate, particularly in short term calculations.

    Also, of course, there's way, way more to health than weight. So we have to factor in those other concerns. Of course you'll lose weight really fast if you starve yourself. That's also extremely unhealthy. Even if you have a "healthy" weight that you maintain you could still have a very unhealthy diet, and could have very poor cardiovascular health too. But given that one wants to do something about one's weight, of course the energy equation is important.

    It’s very difficult to lose weight through exercise alone.

    Yes, food makes up the lion's share of the energy equation. We can eat far more than we can exercise, easily. We're evolved that way, probably because there's huge survival advantage in it. We're damned efficient animals, part

    But perhaps we could all go out and enjoy the sunshine today.

    I'm gonna whale on my quads and abs, personally. It's indicative of your prior point that the total energy burn of an hour of doing that, with all the muscle soreness that will follow, is worth about 1 muesli bar. I exercise to be healthy. For weight loss, I control my diet. Others can do as they please, but

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Emma Hart,

    But this is not a thread about moderation.

    No, But I'm glad You and Russell said a few words about it all the same.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    I think it is time we treated obesity (awful blaming word) as an impairment or even a chemical addiction for some people and respond with a version of the social model of disability. (Whereby people have impairments but society disables – therefore society as a whole has a responsibility to address the obesigenic /disabling environments, policies and attitudes which construct ‘obesity’.)

    There are lots of people in the community who need antipsychotic medications, which have side effects that make weight management very difficult. Thats not an inverted judgement. I’m just saying there's one demographic right there that could do with out being patronised over there physical appearance.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Angela Hart, in reply to steven crawford,

    Labour wants to both change the environment and encourage exercise in the young:
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/289097/labour-reveals-plan-to-tackle-obesity

    Christchurch • Since Apr 2014 • 614 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to steven crawford,

    Yeah, there are quite a number of conditions and medications that cause hard-to-shift weight gain in some people, including anti-depressants, the contraceptive pill, and polycystic ovarian syndrome.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Angela Hart,

    (by the way, this system needs a clear space after a link - not punctuation like the full stop you added)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Something also missing from Labour's policy (though I'm glad they plan to tackle the sugar-peddlers): I'd like to see every school have growing, preparing and sharing good food as part of their core curriculum. Impressed by the current programmes that send healthy cooking done by the students home with them to influence family expectations. Or sell it to students for lunch to finance the next round of crops and other ingredients. Could even include local community experts to showcase different cultures' cuisine and increase understanding of our diverse society.

    'Healthy Eating, Healthy Action' was a much more positive tagline than anything with the phrase 'childhood obesity'. Shame the PM's science advisor has been so focused on pregnant women and that seeking to control and punish beneficiaries comes so naturally for the Nats.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Sacha,

    And the kids actually engage with the food. Own it. See it grow. Tend and nurture the plants. Watch the bees do their thing. Get to taste how much better home grown vegies taste.

    I'd have a few chooks, feed them the lunch scraps and put the chook poo on the garden. Use the eggs to make fresh veg frittata.

    All good.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Angela Hart, in reply to Sacha,

    mea culpa

    Christchurch • Since Apr 2014 • 614 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

This topic is closed.