Random Play: All Apologies
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Does that training stick or does it come unstuck when they leave office.
Well, look at John Profumo who might be best remembered for giving his name to the mac daddy of sex scandals (though it wasn't his extra-marital affair that ultimately cooked his has, but lying about it in the House), but his post-political life as an advocate and fund-raider for Toynbee Hall is, in my view, truly admirable.
Also worth noting that he and his wife kicked it old school: No book deals or lachrymose appearances on Oprah for the Profumos.
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Excellent post Graham!
I always groan when I hear public apologies ... usually they're carefully crafted elements of the political theatre and not worth the time we spend listening to them. Frankly, I put them in the same category as marketing messages.
A well rehearsed “sorry” is about as meaningful as “farm fresh” on a packet of eggs laid by battery hens.We're simply accustomed to being lied to incessantly. We brush it off as “advertising”, “politics”, “business” etc.
It's sad to consider that language is losing its meaning. -
Yeah, Scandal was a great film. It had character arcs not one dimensional figures, if my memory serves me well.
No book deals or lachrymose appearances on Oprah for the Profumos.
It just wasnt the British way.
"Take it on chin Old Boy" is a fine sentiment in that situation. -
Years ago I did some post graduate study with a group of other 'mature' students. One of them was a fairly recent immigrant from Holland. He said something that many of us found quite offensive. One woman in particular was very upset. I quietly suggested to him that he apologise to her. His reply was "no offense meant, no apology necessary".
I thought at the time it might be a cultural thing. (Or a MCP thing.)
Over the years I've thought about his comment a lot.
If he apologised, believing what he said to be true or inoffensive then he would be apologising for the other person's feelings being offended, not for saying something that he believed was offensive.Of course later he might have come to see why what he said was offensive and been truly sorry. Who knows.
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"no offense meant, no apology necessary".
Not sure I buy this and I have heard this said a few times.
The original Latin meaning for the word apology (apologia) was to speak in one's defense , in which case you Dutch man was probably right , he you are not aware of doing anything wrong - nothing to defend.
Whereas saying sorry is to feel sorrow, to feel regret for your actions - quite a different inflection.
If you actions or words have hurt someone I think it is only human to feel sorrow for having done that regardless of if you meant to cause hurt or not. In my experience most hurt given was never meant. I think its a sign of character to be able to feel and express sorrow.
The other question is - does offense = hurt. I reckon offense is another word - like sorry - that is used too lightly , hysterically at times. -
It just wasnt the British way.
"Take it on chin Old Boy" is a fine sentiment in that situation.Up to a point, but his son wrote a memoir a few year back, and it comes across that John Profumo was sincerely and deeply ashamed of how his affair hurt his family. John was at Eton when the Profumo Scandal broke and - surprise! - teenage boys can be spiteful little shits wherever, whenever. He'd certainly handed his wife grounds for divorce in the most lurid way possible.
He couldn't undo the fatal damage he'd caused to the Government he was a part of, but his silence could at least save his wife and son from more humiliation than they'd already endured. Then he spent the rest of his life working for charity in a way that wasn't part of some 'image rehabilitation' strategy cooked up by a publicist or political spin doctor.
I quietly suggested to him that he apologise to her. His reply was "no offense meant, no apology necessary"
Um, what's Dutch for "I smell bullshit on your breath"? Hey, I'm sure in South Africa there's folks who don't mean to be offensive when they use 'Dutchman' in it's pejorative sense. I still would suggest anyone who wanted to chuck it around at gathering of South African immigrants on the North Shore -- where a large proportion are probably of Afrikaner descent -- think twice. Then STFU.
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Mmm, see... If I should, say, use the word 'niggardly', and somebody listening became offended because they believed it to be a racist slur, I wouldn't feel any obligation to apologise for their offense. Does that make me a bitch?
(The answer is of course, no, that was all those other things.)
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To be sorry can mean to apologise, but it can also mean to sympathise. To be sorrowful is to be regretful. If a statement that is spoken in truth and honesty offends someone else, then the latter meaning may be entirely appropriate.
I don't regret my words, but I do regret your taking offence at what I say. I'm sorry, but I stand by what I'm saying.
But in the real world, not even Helen Clark's best teflon survived that defense.
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I don't regret my words, but I do regret your taking offence at what I say. I'm sorry, but I stand by I'm saying.
But in the real world, not even Helen Clark's best teflon survived that defense.
"I'm sorry that any offence was taken" is a really slimy passive-aggressive way of not owning your own bullshit. And it's waaay too common in public (not just political) life for my liking.
If I act like a dick, the problem isn't that others take offence but that I caused it in the first place. If I don't think I have a damn thing to apologise for, then I'll say so.
But stroking your word weasel in public is just gross -- and it insults everyone's intelligence to boot.
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If I don't think I have a damn thing to apologise for, then I'll say so.
But what if you genuinely regret that your best intended actions upset someone?
After all, it might be someone you like, or want to be liked by.
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Mmm, see... If I should, say, use the word 'niggardly', and somebody listening became offended because they believed it to be a racist slur, I wouldn't feel any obligation to apologise for their offense. Does that make me a bitch?
Oh god. We actually had that one, didn't we?
I wasn't sorry to see the back of Michael/Shep.
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3410,
"I'm sorry that any offence was taken" is a really slimy passive-aggressive way of not taking ownership for your own behaviour.
Disagree. Often, sure, but not necessarily.
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Does that make me a bitch?
If I said yes, would you be offended, would I then have to apologize?
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"I'm sorry for, y'know, everything."
Slight rephrase, "I'm Sorry, for you know everything"
I had to apologise once, for making a mistake. I had said I was wrong, when in all honesty, I wasn't. -
If I said yes, would you be offended, would I then have to apologize?
I have been called a bitch by some* of my closest friends.
And I nearly said, "I'm very hard to offend" but the last person I said that to subsequently spent about an hour on the balcony in Tabac trying to prove me wrong. I wasn't offended, I just thought he was a Very Big Male Chicken, which is not the kind of thing you can really apologise for.
*Alright, all. -
Emma:
You'll always be a high-riding, ball-breaking bitch to me. :)
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working for charity in a way that wasn't part of some 'image rehabilitation' strategy cooked up by a publicist or political spin doctor.
I can think of many people who would benefit from anonymous rehabilitation. And no, not DJ's.
on the balcony in Tabac trying to prove me wrong. I wasn't offended, I just thought he was a Very Big Male Chicken,
Funny I was out late one night in town and I saw a VBMC, and I thought it was the drugs.
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on the balcony in Tabac trying to prove me wrong. I wasn't offended, I just thought he was a Very Big Male Chicken,
Funny I was out late one night in town and I saw a VBMC, and I thought it was the drugs.Even funnier, in 1995, if you went to a certain "resort" cafe at Ban Mae Nam on Koh Samui, and asked for Big Chicken (you didn't have to specify gender), they gave you drugs in exchange for a paltry sum of money..
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Gordon Brown's remorse in relation to the death of a British soldier...seemed genuine
But he hasn't stopped the offending activity. He's still sending troops off to a colonial occupation of someone else's country. Until he realised that and brings them home, what's remorse and apology.
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I find the the release of the recording of Gordon Brown's phone conversation an appalling breach of trust.
A communication is only confidential if *both* sides agree it is.
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I just thought he was a Very Big Male Chicken
It's almost home time, enough with the subtle. That took my brain like 10 clicks to figure out!
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It's almost home time, enough with the subtle. That took my brain like 10 clicks to figure out!
Good job our trackydax friend from Nelson is out walking his....VBMC
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I've been thinking about this week's radio rant, and I think I've found my topic sentence in the wake of Messers Harawira and Mallard getting called out on calling Chris Finlayson "Tinkerbell'.
Outsourcing your nastiness to the caucus "attack dog" does not make you nice -- just a cowardly, hypocritical enabler.
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Very Big Male Chicken
May that phrase catch on.
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So Hone has dismissed the suggestion of him becoming an independent MP as the 'silliest idea he has heard'.
More like the best offer he'll get...
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