OnPoint by Keith Ng

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  • George Darroch,

    Keith, you make the claim

    Not only is it what New Zealand is good at, it's also a valuable insurance against world food prices. To cutting down dairy production in favour of wheat etc. is like pouring water down the drain so you have empty vessels to catch rain with.

    which is to say you strongly imply that dairy is all we're good at, and all we can be good at, and all we can export profitably. I happen to strongly disagree with you, and that in many cases dairy is an highly inefficient use of some of the best growing conditions on the planet.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    the Greens are righ tto ask what we get out of the dairy industry. They polute our atmosphere, poison our rivers, dodge their taxes, and we don't even get cheap cheese.

    i agree. the taxpayer will be covering their externalities for decades.

    look at the rotorua lakes if you need proof of that. and once the company is well-enough cashed up, it will leave for fairer shores.

    "new zealand: net exporter of exporters"

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    I happen to strongly disagree with you, and that in many cases dairy is an highly inefficient use of some of the best growing conditions on the planet.

    and, what george said.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I've just said that NZ has "some of the best growing conditions on the planet", so I think I should flesh that out. I'm thinking of the Waikato here, which not coincidentally is prime dairy country. Warm, temperate climate, regular high rainfall, and metres of rich volcanic soil until recently protected by forests. A friend of mine who happens to be a farmer reckons you could produce crops to feed 20 million people with intensive agriculture in the Waikato. I have no idea whether he's right or not, but it does suggest we consider other options. Is dairy the goose that lays golden eggs, or simply a golden calf?

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    Re Fish & Quota.

    The only quota that works in NZ is the Community Quota of the Chatham Islands rather than the criminal Individual Transferable Sytem we run for the rest of NZ.

    The $10000 minimum to claim any quota wiped out the smaller and more sustainable seasonal fishers (read Maori/seasonal labourers).

    You can't buy locally caught fish at any resturant on Waiheke Is. it's all caught there, processd in Nth AKL, trucked to Sth AKL, and ferried back to Waiheke Is. - simple & efficient - Not.

    Subsistence fishers have no provision under our fishing regeime - so flicking a line in the sea isn't quite as simple as it once was.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    Man I want to shop where StatsNZ shop. My 2 litres of milk cost me a heap more than that - up over $4.

    Look closer...

    Where I shop, you choose how much to pay.

    Anchor/Meadow Fresh around $4.30
    Signature Range ~ $3.90
    Home Brand ~ $3.20
    (prices approximate due to memory, but there's definitely more than $1 variation)

    It's all the same milk. It all comes from the same factory(s) and whether cheap or expensive, and it all has the same expiry dates (usually over 10 days away).

    I choose to pay less :)

    I wont even think about purchasing at a dairy or petrol station... I believe I may have payed over $5 the other day while not being attentive?

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 893 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I wont even think about purchasing at a dairy or petrol station...

    My local dairy charges $3 for a 2l milk, or 2 for $5, far less than anything available at the local Foodtown.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    FletcherB's prices square with Woolworths Online. Dairies charge huge prices for convenience, and because the cash and carries they get supply from are often more expensive than supermarkets. (the refusal of NZ supermarkets to supply "trade" is in my view an anticompetitive measure).

    Saudi Arabia, interestingly, does have petrol at well below world prices. They subsidise it, as do other regional states, in order to stop the population getting any more pissed off with their rulers than they are already.

    We could I suppose, tax milk exports and use the money to subsidise domestic milk - which is what forcing Fonterra to reduce domestic milk prices would amount to. Why this would be a good idea in a country with the levels of obesity and type II diabetes that we have escapes me?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • steve black,

    Did anybody else notice that

    $3.22 - $2.62 = $0.60

    which is easily misreported as a 60 percent increase rather than 60 cent increase?

    I lack a fake PhD from the UK (mine's real and from the University of Auckland) so I don't think you really need one to spot a likely source of reporting error. But you do need an open mind.

    sunny mt albert • Since Jan 2007 • 116 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen,

    Damn good point steve...

    Auckland • Since Apr 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Presumably we pay the lowest rate in the world for dairy products, since our milk is priced at the global rate less shipping half-way around the globe.

    Except that a 1 kilo block of Mainland Tasty costs $10.38 in my local supermarket in Adelaide (a 'quality' supermarket, so I tend to shop more often at the cheaper Coles 1 suburb over, where it also cost $10.38). There's no GST on food here, so if we add the NZ GST - 12.5%, we get a price of $11.68, and then if we convert the Aussie dollar price to an NZ dollar price, using today's exchange rate 1.2198 (per FinData at 2.18pm NZ time), then we get a price of $14.24.

    So it's cheaper to buy a block of NZ made cheese in Australia than it is to buy the same block (i.e. exactly the same product) in New Zealand.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Presumably we pay the lowest rate in the world for dairy products,

    I've heardr anecdotal evidence that Lurpak butter, from Denmark, is selling in our supermarkets at lower cost than NZ butter.

    Can anyone confirm?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    No GST on food in Australia? That's a ridiculous idea!

    Whoops, wrong thread... Back to the price of cheese.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Which, I assume, means that she wants New Zealand farming to diversify -- away from the areas where it's strongest, and into areas where it's not.

    Sue Kedgley mentioned garlic, which is one product where local producers have pushed back against cheap imports.

    Chinese garlic is dirt cheap and usually of poor quality, as least for ordinary culinary use. NZ garlic is much more expensive ($10-$18 kg) but also fresher and much nicer. It has made a welcome return to the shelves since it dawned on retailers that people would actually pay for something edible.

    I guess the irony here is that if you go to, say Harvest Wholefoods, the shelves are crammed with expensive, imported (usually from the US) products. The not-very-good organic garlic from America can be as much as $25kg.

    Sayin'.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Although not nearly as abundant as carbon dioxide--CO2--methane remains the second most important greenhouse gas, both because each molecule of CH4 in the atmosphere traps 23 times as much heat as carbon dioxide and it helps create more ozone--yet another greenhouse gas--in the atmosphere. During the two decades of measurements, methane underwent double-digit growth as a constituent of our atmosphere, rising from 1,520 parts per billion by volume (ppbv) in 1978 to 1,767 ppbv in 1998. But the most recent measurements have revealed that methane levels are barely rising anymore--and it is unclear why.

    Ref
    The amount of carbon on the planet has remained exactly the same for millions of years. There is, in fact, a "carbon cycle" where the carbon becomes attached and detached from other elements ie. Hydrogen, in the form of Hydrocarbons and carbohydrates which can be oxidised by burning or eating and digesting. Some of the carbon is released as carbon dioxide and some breaks down to a lower form of hydrocarbon, methane CH4. The carbon dioxide is taken up by all plant life, from trees to algae and then is either eaten, again, or rots down, releasing more methane, eventually becoming hydrocarbon again, oil or coal (over millions of years) It is this millions of years that is the problem. In a mere hundred years or so we have burned millions of years worth of hydrocarbons, this is why some are concerned about human causes of global warming. However, if the next time you take a long trip in an aeroplane, have a look out of the window and see just how insignificant the human impact is on a global scale.
    Sure, we could do better in terms of pollution and I think the panic about global warming is a wake up call in this respect and will lead to better outcomes in cleaning up the mess of the last few hundred years. We are on the road to a better understanding of our planet and the damage done but carbon credits and cow farts? Gimmee a break.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    $3.07 for 2L Budget brand blue top milk at Pak N Save Tamatea
    I hope you don't normally do the shopping for your household

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Organic producers are typically inefficient, and let the margins make up for it. It's the poor quality that irks me, since this is in no way inevitable.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen,

    I worked in an organic apple orchard for a few months, and the apples were *awesome*. Thing is, they were all exported!

    Auckland • Since Apr 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Organic producers are typically inefficient, and let the margins make up for it. It's the poor quality that irks me, since this is in no way inevitable.

    They dress kinda funny too....Lazy Hippies. ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    which is to say you strongly imply that dairy is all we're good at, and all we can be good at, and all we can export profitably. I happen to strongly disagree with you, and that in many cases dairy is an highly inefficient use of some of the best growing conditions on the planet.

    Sure - I'm not wedded to dairy at all. But I'm just saying, growing cash crops where we have a competitive advantage, and using that to trade for other kinds of food is much more reasonable than trying to grow everything (bananas, for example) ourselves.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen,

    I realise thats a joke, but I now feel the need to point out that there are plenty of large scale organic farmers who are no different from any other farmers, they've just made a big and difficult decision to go for the money in organics (difficult because a farm can't be certified organic for 2-3 years of not using chemicals, at which time you must sell produce in the 'normal' market - quite difficult times.)

    And then there's the farmers who won't sell to further away than 200km or whatever, who obviously have more of an 'ethic'.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    Did anybody else notice that

    $3.22 - $2.62 = $0.60

    which is easily misreported as a 60 percent increase rather than 60 cent increase?

    Heh, that's quite likely, actually. But it's not the reporters' mistake (nor mine). It's right here in the speech notes.

    Still, it never ceases to amazing me how people don't stop and think: "Gee, 60%? That sounds a bit high, don't it?"

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen,

    that was for steve barnes...

    Auckland • Since Apr 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen,

    I assume the speech notes came straight from what she/her writer typed i.e. it was a copy-paste from Word...would seem a little implausible that someone would have to have transcribed that.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    You can't buy locally caught fish at any resturant on Waiheke Is. it's all caught there, processd in Nth AKL, trucked to Sth AKL, and ferried back to Waiheke Is. - simple & efficient - Not.

    Subsistence fishers have no provision under our fishing regeime - so flicking a line in the sea isn't quite as simple as it once was.

    That's not subsistence fishing, that's commercial fishing.

    Subsistence fishing is just as easy as it used to be, I do it every summer, and spend about a week catching fish for my family in the Marlborough Sounds.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

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