Not Guilty

253 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 11 Newer→ Last

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    But can one of the lawyers explain tome when evidence stops being evidence as to the character of the accused, and starts being "prejudicial"? I'm not clear on this.

    The evidence would have nothing to do with character. Character evidence - against an accused - is only relevant if they give evidence. Bain didn't.

    Juries don't sit in judgement on the question of whether someone is of good character, they try to determine whether a particular offence has been proved to have been committed by a particuar defendant. Evidence of bad character is only relevant to the extent that it impacts on this question - usually this will be in the form: the defendant his given evidence and said that he wasn't there, but the defendant is a proven liar etc...

    [evidence of bad character can also be introduced if a defendant introduces evidence of good character]

    When does it start being "prejudicial"? It's always prejudicial. Most evidence is prejudicial ... as noted above, the primary test for admissablity (of any piece of evidence) is whether the probabative vaue of the evidence outwieghs it's prejudicial effect.

    What does the evidence help to prove that is relevant to the question that is before the jury? And is that enough to overcome the prejudice?

    [you can think of "prejudice" as having a meaning deriving from its root - pre-judge. The fact that someone has 3 convictions for rape already is highly prejudicial - people will look at that and be more likely to conclude that the individual has committed the rape they've been charged with, without looking at the evidence in the particular case]

    In the present case, the evidence may be seen as helping to prove that Bain is guilty, but the prejudice is pretty high, and what would it really prove? In this case, the problems with the alibi can be raised anyway, all the prosecution needs to say is "we say this was a premeditated murder, David would obviously try to set himself up an alibi, so you shouldn't put too much weight on his claim to have been delivering the newspaper". When you can get to the same point, or nearly the same point, without massive prejudice to the accused, that's the route you take.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    looks like I'm not the only one with a few drinks on the mind...

    I tend to agree, but I suspect it's from a professional position. A few years ago there were news reports that following a not guilty verdict members of the jury hugged the defendant. It seemed highly improper to me, but then I can see what some jurors might be feeling [not about either case, but in some circumstances I can see it arising] ... we know more about this case now than almost anyone out there, we're just really sorry it came to this, society owes you an apology for putting you through this, we know it sucks, even though you've been acquitted...

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    Danielle - I'm struggling with the image of you wondering around humming My sweet lord....

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Ur geez Danielle - "here comes the son"?

    (crawls off into the night)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    You're all punny and I was terribly literal, I'm afraid...

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Now, how the hell do *I* get rid of that one?

    (which I think I last heard in about 1990)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    There are known remedies, but they're worse than the disease (case in point: the Spirit in the Sky cover by Doctor and the Medics).

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    arrrrgh!
    2 now - each competing for an ear-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Easy - my current local fave. Recommending good speakers or you'll need to imagine the bass.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Aaaaaaaaa!

    Thank you Sacha!

    (Incidentally, I know it was a hoodie, but it was bloody close to a dancing swannie-)

    (The Mac handled it, bass et al - and - robbery! I'd happily pay for the listening, if only on my machine (I generally only go fromCDs/dvds I've bought.)

    So, Real Groovy?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    jersey enriched culture

    check out the comments

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    weird, nasty - and the seller is so polite I almost feel I should help in some way except-

    I'm making sorrel soup. It takes quite a bit of attention.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Jus gorgus sacha. Thanx.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    I must say that this Morning's Insight by the outstanding Sue Ingram is well worth taking 30 minutes out of your life to listen on teh interweb if you didn't hear it this morning.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Re jersey culture. Q and A's moving backdrop also seems to pay homage to the famous jersey. (BTW Why do TV studio shows - including Media 7 - have to have such distracting backgrounds - what's wrong with a plain wall?)

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3227 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    A few years ago there were news reports that following a not guilty verdict members of the jury hugged the defendant. It seemed highly improper to me

    Then you almost certainly don't want to be reading the SST this morning.

    Pg A4 - actively soliciting for members of the jury to come forward and 'tell their story'. I weep tears of despair.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Apparently David Bain had a 6 rounds at Shooters.. ka da boom.

    (Shooters is a Christchurch bar)

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    The comparison with OJ is very interesting.

    Bloody Gloves vs Bloody Socks (Defense said their respective hands/feet wouldn't fit)
    Phone calls recorded
    Both actors of a fashion
    Both stood to inherit the estate
    Both not guilty

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Bloody Gloves vs Bloody Socks (Defense said their respective hands/feet wouldn't fit)
    Phone calls recorded
    Both actors of a fashion
    Both stood to inherit the estate
    Both not guilty

    Yeah, uncanny.
    One was a big black guy, the other wasn't.
    One was an American, the other wasn't.
    One was a footbal player, the other wasn't.
    One involved a slow police chase, the other didn't.
    One had their house burned down, the other didn't.
    One had gloves, the other had socks.
    Its like a mirror image eh?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Hands up who wants to give David Bain a filthy glance next time they see him on the street.

    Hey, I'll slap him on the back and say "Love the new album Bob" and walk away. Confuse the fuck out of him eh?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    The comparison with OJ is very interesting.

    The differences are striking, however.

    The Bain case screamed "Reasonable Doubt" from the beginning. Any other verdict would have been inconceivable. The defence rebutted every key piece of evidence the Crown put forward. I'm not saying Bain didn't do it (only Bain truly knows), but I don't see how any of us can judge him. The jury at least had the benefit of hearing all the evidence, and not through the lense of the news media. And they weren't convinced of his guilt.

    Hands up who wants to give David Bain a filthy glance next time they see him on the street.

    I don't expect to see him on the street. Thanks to comments like that Bain will probably spend the next few years afraid to walk the streets.

    Hand up those who were on the jury and heard all the evidence, and are qualified to pronounce as to Bain's guilt or innocence.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I'm not saying Bain didn't do it (only Bain truly knows), but I don't see how any of us can judge him. The jury at least had the benefit of hearing all the evidence, and not through the lense of the news media. And they weren't convinced of his guilt.

    Yeah, fair enough. I think that you're right that there was always doubt, and I understand the decision.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    I made that comment with sarcasm.

    Oh. Sorry. My sarcasm detector doesn't work on the Lord's Day.

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    I'm not really sure why everyone is so convinced David Bain murdered his family. But I am inclined to agree with David Slack that if he did it, he's served his time, and if he didn't, the right verdict was reached.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    I'm not really sure why everyone is so convinced David Bain murdered his family.

    Yes Jackie I agree, but I think (and that's all it is) that when humans look at slightly awkward people or not beautiful ( Susan Boyle as an example) people, it becomes easier to assume they are not good. I also think that to still have unanswered questions (I believe entirely the police's fault re shabby/lazy work) would then leave suspision and David is the only one left so it becomes his fault. I actually think this trial has created what could have been other scenarios but I do believe David deserved a reasonable doubt not guilty verdict. Everyone (not here particularly) keeps saying only David knows. I disagree. He may not know. The brain is an interesting thing, and I now know it's unpredictable so David might just be in the dark as anyone else. Jus' sayin. Hope you are coming Wednesday or Thursday. :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 11 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.