Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Think it possible that you may be mistaken

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  • Kumara Republic, in reply to bmk,

    Advertisers are naturally safe and if they all choose to only advertise in concordance with something they like – everything will end up very bland and boring.

    If anything, the commercial radio landscape is already vapid enough as it is, even without advertiser boycotts.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    maybe have a think about why that is.

    But that's just research. Two sides to every argument, and how dare we privilege the fact-based one over the one that's Total Fucking Bullshit?

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Good thread, people (*school chaplain's voice*).

    Here's my take ...

    When somebody writes an opinion piece that starts a row, then we on PA or anywhere else on the net can just link to the source, and discuss the evidence that is in front of our eyes. We may have different views, but we can all see what we're talking about. It's an informed debate.

    But when it comes to commercial talkback radio, often we don't know what we're talking about. Because - and please correct me if I'm wrong - most of us, most of the time, aren't listening. And so it remains, unheard, unlinked, and unknown.

    Discussions about this medium - and its consequences - are long on principles and short on evidence. It's amazing how many people have defended Jackson & Tamihere on this, and then admitted they never bothered with Exhibit A. Or their years of previous offending (you think this sorry story came out of nowhere?).

    Blessed with insomnia and masochistic tendencies, I have witnessed such levels of misogyny, bigotry and general idiocy on talkback most days or nights of the week. You could call it freedom, or you could call it slow-acting poison, the kind of toxin that makes Allan Titford a hero for decades before the truth comes out (and incidentally, comes out not thanks to our "free" commercial media, but our independent courts, happily unsponsored).

    So here's my suggestion. Those who invoke "freedom" before returning to Kim Hill and their downloaded documenaries and other civilised privileges, should take some time to discover what they are talking about.

    Prescription: 12 hours of talkback daily, for a year. Discover your real tolerance for what you call "freedom". How many days till you phone up in anger? How long before you realize that doesn't work? And then? Action? Like Giovanni Tiso's? Or something else? Why not?

    Because you have the off switch, that's why. Because you value your freedom to put your hands over your ears, to turn a blind eye. I respect that freedom. But please don't pretend it leaves you better informed about the issues at stake.

    1 a.m, people. Turn on, tune in, give up. Or - respond. Which is better?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1329 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    And further to Simon's point, if you were surprised by the woman-loathing expressed a few pages back: don't be. Those guys are resentfully there on the internet all the time, waiting to pounce on women speaking.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Deborah,

    I think Graeme is wrong in this instance, but one of the reasons for engaging with him and his argument on this thread is that he’s built up a long history of careful engaged thoughtful argument.

    That's certainly been true when he's spoken from his considerable expertise. To me it's not simply a case of being wrong in this instance, but of having moved beyond his area of competence.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Yes. It's pretty ahistorical and really fails to address systemic power imbalances. Cultural studies stuff.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Hey, Giovanni what do you think of Cunliffe calling Judith Collins a trout?

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Chuck Bird,

    Hey, Giovanni what do you think of Cunliffe calling Judith Collins a trout?

    What, you think my name is Petronius all of a sudden? Why are you asking me?

    But since you are, and without being fully aware of the connotations of the term in NZE, I'd have to say it was a demeaning and stupid word to use. I could revise downwards once somebody explains to me what it was even supposed to mean.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    As gendered insults go, it's a pretty dated one.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Thank you, Jackie. I've learnt a hell of a lot by listening to the women who hang out here, and I really appreciate it, not least because I'm trying to raise a daughter.

    And in light of your comment.... Graeme went and wrote something that pushed me from irritated to pissed off, but last night I couldn't respond coherently. I think I'll go do my shouting somewhere else, like perhaps my own much neglected blog. I have no desire to add to the noise here.

    Oh, and Lilith:

    I want to mention how many women have told me that they’ve been reading here but didn’t feel they could comment.

    Ouch. I'm definitely going to go elsewhere to do my shouting.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Oh, and Lilith:

    I want to mention how many women have told me that they’ve been reading here but didn’t feel they could comment.

    Ouch. I’m definitely going to go elsewhere to do my shouting.

    Chris, please don’t take that personally! I always value your input, along with that of PAS’s other gentlemen. It’s the abusers and misogynists and the lack of moderation around them that’s the problem here.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    I’ve learnt a hell of a lot by listening to the women who hang out here, and I really appreciate it, not least because I’m trying to raise a daughter.

    +1

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover, in reply to Anne R,

    Very cogent points, Anne. Also: thanks heaps for linking to your great post on Scoop -- I think it should be a must-read for anyone following this issue/thread.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 355 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Oh sorry Megan, didn't see you'd already posted that link.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird, in reply to Danielle,

    Danielle, that sounds like you are say because it is dated it is not so bad. Would cow then be acceptable or would that depend on who is saying it and who is on the receiving end.

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Chuck Bird,

    Would cow then be acceptable or would that depend on who is saying it and who is on the receiving end.

    Chuck, some of us are talking about rape and the systematic silencing of women. Perhaps this isn't the place for debating trouts vs. cows?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Tim Hannah,

    Some of you should go read WE NEED TO CHANGE HOW WE TALK ABOUT RAPE

    Brilliant (though long and hard to read).

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Lilith __,

    oh but then how else will Chuck be able to complete his script? if he can't use wilful misunderstanding and false equivalence to make an irrelevant point about imagined hypocrisy, he might lose at internet!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to stephen clover,

    +1 to that. Anyone who hasn't read Anne's brilliant roundup of issues related to the Roastbusters case, here's another link .

    And the video Anne posts:

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Chuck Bird,

    No, I'm saying that because it's so dated it's fairly difficult for non-native speakers to work out what it means. I'm not really even sure *I* know what it means. It's the kind of word you see in Agatha Christie novels.

    I'm not quite sure what your point is either - or if you even have one, beyond being weirdly niggly - but I don't consider trout or cow acceptable descriptions of women in public life.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Lilith __,

    It bears repeating. :)

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Oh, is THAT what he's trying to do? It's such a weird, ineffective sort of zinger that I couldn't work it out. Still, go on with your bad self, Chuck. Maybe at some point we'll have a moment of clarity where we think "we got TOLD!" when reading your posts. Stranger things have happened.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Danielle,

    Stranger things have happened.

    No, they haven't.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Incidentally, Chuck is one of those aforementioned talkback callers in the wee small hours, when his obsession is unmoderated by the hosts and is even worse than it is on here. Although not as bad as "Owen", a caller who explicitly described the violence he would like to do to homosexuals and got ... a chuckle from the host (on Newstalk ZB).

    Now I'd suggest that talkback radio could BOTH uphold freedom of speech AND employ hosts who robustly challenge that speech ... but by asking for such minimum standards I'd be interfering with free speech or something (according to people like Graeme who never actually listen to the speech).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1329 posts Report Reply

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