Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The perils of political confidence

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  • John Farrell,

    Time for someone anonymous to leak it, methinks.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 496 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Media outlets are advised that it is an offence to disclose private communications unlawfully intercepted.

    So, what was that about a secret agenda? seems it is so secret the police are now protecting the Prime Minister from the people.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    I think that at this point they just have to publish and be damned. It is all very mucky and annoying, and I have to admit I am really kinda curious.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    National will be responsible for the bringing of criminal charges against a newspaper editor. That is hardly ever a good look.

    Right-thinking New Zillunders will agree that those pinko editors should know their place. All hail King John.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Sacha,

    All hail King John.

    More like King Cnut, trying to hold back the tide of public opinion.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Sacha,

    At Shirley, it's "New Cylinders" in Keyspeak.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Martin,

    Media outlets are advised that it is an offence to disclose private communications unlawfully intercepted.

    Such as when Bill English was taped during the previous election? Or when Obama and Sarkozy were recently, regarding Netanyahu?

    Why now?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 187 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Peter Martin,

    Why now?

    Because National have no policy left to announce, it is just a sideshow. Can you really imagine Key and Banks having anything important to say. Just gossip about Peters that's all.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Russell Brown,

    So if the recording is deemed unlawful, the HoS seems to have already committed the offence.

    Not necessarily.

    "where any person discloses the private communication, or the substance, meaning, or purport of the communication or any part of it

    The courts would need to decide if the Herald's published stories discloses the recorded conversation's content. But I read the next bit separately:

    or discloses the existence of the private communication if he knows that it has come to his knowledge as a direct or indirect result of an offence against s216B Crimes Act

    Disclosing its existence is an offence only if the HoS knew it was obtained in breach of the Crimes Act... they've said that the reporter didn't know the recording device was live so the disclousre of its existence itself is not necessarily an offence.

    Graeme, at least, will correct me if I'm wrong on my reading of the section of the Crimes Act.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Guyon Espiner reports that "another news organisation" has a copy of the tape.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to 3410,

    TV3 news said they do.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Paul Williams,

    if the Herald's published stories discloses the recorded conversation's content

    the quotes above are enough.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kracklite,

    At Shirley

    damn popular place, despite the quake

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • ange wither,

    You'd have to strongly suspect from the 3 news item that the tape contains discussion about rolling Don Brash straight after the election.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Sacha,

    the quotes above are enough.

    Possibly, but that's a matter first for the Police and then the Courts.

    I might've misunderstood Russell's point, my point was the disclosure alone isn't a matter the Police would likely prosecute as (a) the HoS claim the recording was inadvertant and (b) the existence of the conversation was in no way a function of the recording, the parties themselves said it was to happen.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Paul Williams,

    The contents of the recording were characterised. However, the first matter is what a reasonable expectation of privacy is in this context.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I’m really not sure if going to the cops was a good idea. If the police prosecute, National will be responsible for the bringing of criminal charges against a newspaper editor. That is hardly ever a good look.

    Neither am I, but I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that if you're a politician you're just asking for anything and everything that happens to you. Might be a radical idea, but even if you think Key and Banks are porn-sized twatcocks they're entitled to exactly the same recourse to the law as everyone else. No more, but certainly no less.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to ange wither,

    You’d have to strongly suspect from the 3 news item that the tape contains discussion about rolling Don Brash straight after the election.

    As Judi Lapsley Miller predicted in this very thread earlier today!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Neither am I, but I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea that if you’re a politician you’re just asking for anything and everything that happens to you. Might be a radical idea, but even if you think Key and Banks are porn-sized twatcocks they’re entitled to exactly the same recourse to the law as everyone else. No more, but certainly no less.

    A complaint to the Press Council would have done fine.

    Alongside Joyce's missive this is looking like a nasty bit of "don't fuck with us" bullying. For all that the usual suspects complained about Helen Clark, she never did this.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Martin, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Indeed. And Banks put on the spot. How sad...

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 187 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The spoof transcript at interest.co runs along the same lines, as well....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 496 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Martin,

    But have we been had? Will folk now be more inclined to vote for a Banks led ACT?

    heh.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 187 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Found this opinion on PunkAs

    "The NZ Herald claim John Key has not given permission for his privacy to be breached. But i point to the David Lange ( Lange v Atkinson) defamation case where the court ruled that a politician discussing a matter of public interest does not have any expectation of privacy. The Herald is failing in its obligations and should be prosecuted if they don't release this tape"

    Any truth in that?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to Russell Brown,

    As Judi Lapsley Miller predicted in this very thread earlier today!

    Um, not quite, but thanks : ). See my Location. The initials are a hang over from work days, when I didn't want to be seen indulging in political discourse in work hours. After four years of blissful retirement I don't give a stuff.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood,

    Unless I misunderstand him, the National MP is here suggesting the Herald on Sunday’s alleged behaviour is worse than that of a British tabloid with an institutional culture of mendacity so endemic and rotten that it was closed down by its owners; a paper that hacked the phone of a murdered child to improve its commercial prospects. Really, Tau?

    Yes, Toby's right. It's the evoking of News of the World that's really got to me. While there are very real ethical (as well as legal) discussions to be had around whether a publication should or shouldn't use the tapes, public interest or not, the leap required to draw comparison with the NOTW scandal is so vast it insults not only those who were directly affected by the hacking, but also the likes of Davies, Rusbridger and others at the Guardian who spent years uncovering the case, arguably at great risk to their own professional careers, not least when it transpired that it went all the way to the top, with senior members of the Met implicated, as well as the Prime Minister's then-chief comms man. I mean, really, let's get some perspective here

    That said, there are real ethical quandries around the incident itself- but that's a separate issue.

    On another note, as media events go, this "cup of tea" has to be shambolic in ways that I bet even the parties involved didn't expect it to be.

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 449 posts Report Reply

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