Hard News: The A-Word
86 Responses
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You really have no idea what you're talking about and you'd do yourself a favour if you just stopped, Neil.
I really don't know what it was I said that called for that. I was just expressing my opinion that the diagnosis may have been wrong. I do have some knowledge about what I'm talking about; I was framing my statements in such a way as to make them judgment calls rather than statements of absolute fact.
But I'll be more inclined to keep my opinions to myself from now on.
Most people recognize that killing other members of our species is a taboo act but it's easy to imagine how a developmental disorder could produce individuals without such an awareness.
Most of these sort of killings are by people who a well aware that this is taboo - it’s the transgression that is part of the motivation. Cho knew killing people is seen as wrong and so for him it was a very powerful way of extracting revenge. It seems be more to do with what psychological restraints might be missing.
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3410,
I really don't know what it was I said that called for that.
I guess I was mainly offended by this:
Narcissism and autism are sort of similar,
and perplexed by this:
A little more secular materialism might have done Cho some good
Please don't "feel inclined to keep your opinions to [your]self from now on". Apologies if the turn of phrase in my comment which precipitated RB's suggested that you should. We've all been knocked back or challenged for what we've said. That's the point of these discussions; to see which opinions and arguments stand up to scrutiny. You can't win 'em all. :)
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that's the truth, Ruth.
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I guess I was mainly offended by this:
That at least gives me something to work with; you originally referred to a different post. But you could have just asked me for clarification - I was
saying that there is significant difference between them, it was my main argument, and I would have thought my relative judgment about the two was clear as well.But I could have been a bit clearer - narcissism and autism are similar to the extent that they both involve a mis-view of other people. In autism this an inability to perceive the world view of others - The Theory of Mind. For narcissists other people are a mere extension of themselves.
That bit about secular materialism was in response to the blame capitalism posts.
I don't mind being challenged but I would prefer if it was done without rudeness.
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I really don't know what it was I said that called for that. I was just expressing my opinion that the diagnosis may have been wrong. I do have some knowledge about what I'm talking about; I was framing my statements in such a way as to make them judgment calls rather than statements of absolute fact.
But I'll be more inclined to keep my opinions to myself from now on.
No, don't do that. It wouldn't be like you anyway ;-)
But I was annoyed by your insistence on long-distance diagnosis and your declaration, sans real evidence, that the clinical finding of the American doctor "might have been wrong". I was somewhat regretting raising the topic in the first place.
An autism spectrum disorder doesn't preclude other personality traits or problems, which Cho clearly had. But I had my suspicions before the a-word came up in the news: a history of being bullied, inability to make eye contact or pick up social cues, seriously inappropriate behaviour (several years ago we had problems with another ASD kid who tried to further his friendship with Jim by making nasty phone calls - good kid, he just didn't understand what he was doing), the inarticulacy and the monotonal voice all fit with ASD.
It is possible for ASD people to lack understanding of the impact of their behaviour on others, and for a rigid moral code to run off the tracks (say, in railing against the idle rich). But most people on the spectrum are gentler than the rest of us. As I've said, autism isn't a predisposition for mass-murder any more than being Korean is. It just seems to me that a failure to confront Cho's problems in childhood (which never eased) was a contributory factor to the disaster he became.
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3410,
Well, a mouse and an elephant are similar to the extent that they're both grey. I think I've said enough to make clear that you don't have to tell me what autism is.
As for your last statement, I've already apologized. Besides I consider you throwing around opinions about something which you admit to being not very knowledgable about, regarding a topic which should obviously be dealt with with some sensitivity, pretty rude too.
Your rejection of my olive branch just shows that its not only ASDs who have social issues.
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THEATRE!!
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SECOND!
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good to see two of us finding this thread a little heated, mr. walker.
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3410, I didn't take offence at your initial comment so wasn't looking for an apology. I took offence at RB's backing you up and adding the "do your self a favour" bit. That's what I meant by "rudeness" (please don't take offence at that RB, I've read your post and see what you're on about).
I did acknowledge that I could have been clearer. I should have added that in no way was I trying to denigrate people with autism.
I didn't mean to reject your olive branch.
I'm really not presuming to tell anyone what autism is and apologise if my comments have been insensitive.
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yeah. to be expected i guess, it's a tough one.
i'm sure we can 'all work together for a durable and sustainable solution to a more inclusive future moving forward' though.
ooh, i have the urge to shout theatre again. -
merc,
Everytime you use it I should get a royalty! What about ME! Oh and Wikipedia is our friend for researching our opinions,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_Personality_Disorder -
3410,
OK. We're cool. thanks for your response.
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3410,
Neil,
OK. We're cool. thanks for your response. -
3410,cheers
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Me too.
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Group hug :)
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i am che.
like the UN.
but useful.
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the un-UN
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the un-use-u-all.
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un-USA
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Thanks for that Racism: A History tip. An excellent peak into recent scholarship on the Atlantic slave trade, I thought. The 2nd of three is currently showing up on the torrents as well.
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Hey all - off topic, nothing to do with this particular "A" word. But some most excellent anti-social behavour.
Anyway (I feel naughty doing this, but it's worth a look).:
Best DPF comments thread EVER!
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Anyway (I feel naughty doing this, but it's worth a look).:
Best DPF comments thread EVER!
And yet, in the midst of the madness, there was this really rather good 10 predictions about the child discipline bill by James Cairney:
1. The Bill will become law.
2. Good parents will continue to be good parents.
3. Bad parents will continue to be bad parents
4. Some good parents will continue smack their children during those stressful moments (and they will continue to feel shitty for doing it, long after the child has forgotten about it). They will not be prosecuted.
5. Some parents will continue to discipline their children with force, and gain an increased contempt for the law generally. The majority will not be prosecuted, a small number will be.
6. Some parents will work at developing 'non-smack' parenting strategies.
7. The police will be more inclined than at present to prosecute for apparent violence in the home, when there are notifications etc.
8. An increased number of parents will be accused of violence against their children at the time of relationship break ups and custody claims, it will become yet another tool in custody disputes.
9. John Key will assume power and will not change it, as it will not have made a lick of practical difference to the vast majority of people.
10. As with the right to hit one's wife for correction, the right to strike children will slowly cease to be accepted by society.I do believe he's correct.
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there was this really rather good 10 predictions about the child discipline bill by James Cairney:
How do we know that was the real James Cairney posting? :)
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