Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Panic

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    You read the UK Independent? Why?

    It's bad enough having Reilly's "journalism lite" in our local paper, which I guess one is obliged to read or be out of the loop on stuff going on here. But I don't see any point reading the UK version, except for Fisk (and he's available elsewhere, I think). I just stick to the grauniad.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I don't mean this question to sound glib, but has Shakespeare been taken off the curriculum in NSW and England? There might be some (weak) correlation between exposure to The Bard of Stratford-upon-Avon and teen suicide (Romeo and Juliet), murdering you wife (Othello), and more batshit crazy nastiness than you could shake a bloody stick at (Titus Andronicus).

    In the latter case, W.S. doesn't actually encourage you to commit
    a pack rape, then cut off your victim's tongue and hands when you're done so she can't nark on you. But you've got to wonder about the play's possible influence on vulnerable youths. Don't you?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Chamberlain,

    Craig, you need to get with the programme ;-): contemporary mainstream morality is that violence is fine, but sex is the problem: Janet Jackson's nipple is more offensive than graphic violence; sex in GTA via Hot Coffee was far worse than the violence which was the whole point of the game, etc...

    Anyway: Shakespeare is literature. And literature doesn't affect people. Only popular culture does. Clearly.

    Russell: glad to see someone taking the Press to task on this. That article really annoyed me.

    London • Since Aug 2007 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    "New Zealand authorities have been contacted over seven suicides in Bridgend, South Wales, that have been linked to a Bebo website called Suicide Girls."

    Methinks they look in the wrong place for the reason. Have you ever been to Bridgend? It looks like it is run by Auckland City Council.
    And what's all this

    New Zealand authorities have been contacted

    ? Who are these authorities, we have a right to know damnit! and who contacted them? I really need to know.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell: glad to see someone taking the Press to task on this. That article really annoyed me.

    The Press has a bit of a track record on Bebo-panic:

    It's hard to tell, but I get the impression that Youthline's Stephen Bell hasn't been done any favours by the way he's been quoted. Either that or he's passing judgement on a website he hasn't seen and has no idea about.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    That article really annoyed me.

    Ditto - and here's the reason why. I think it's fair comment to say everyone just feels sick at the though of anyone ending their life before its even really begun. But while its perfectly understandable why people want simple answers to complex problems and horrible tragedies, isn't it the responsibility of the media to be the cool, calm voice of reason and obstinate fact?

    Here's the ugly truth: I attempted suicide when I was fourteen because I was a very, very unhappy wee chap. The undiagnosed manic-depression sure didn't help matters. You don't find answers when you're asking entirely the wrong question, or going for the quick fix non-solution.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And before my blood pressure returns to normal. What do folks think of this proposition?

    The De-Press's latest fit of Beebophobia is proof that bad health reporting should be considered a public health issue?

    OK, I know that sounds totally OTT but surely you can't make good decisions (whether at the macro-level of legislation and public policy down to judgment calls around getting your children vaccinated or going on HRT) when you're being fed shonky stories more interested in scaring the shit out of you than informing?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Actually, it's good to see we've moved on a generation when we used to get told that it was your Dungeons & Dragons character dying that would lead to your suicide. Technology has changed the picture it seems...

    My son is 9, and displays very little interest in the internet. If he wanted to have a Bebo/myspace/facebook profile to connect with his friends, I would probably let him, but I'd keep a very close eye on what went on there.

    If he was 15, I wouldn't keep control over his account, but I'd look in on it occasionally to see what he used it for, in much the same way before he went out to town with his friends I'd find out where he was going and who he was going with.

    Maybe it's just me, but if I had a teenage child and one of their best friends committed suicide, I'd be thinking about keeping a close eye on them and maybe finding some help for them dealing with a pretty traumatic loss. I wonder what these parents did, particularly when the suicide list started to get longer?

    She writes for the Geek section of the Suicide Girls website and is, objectively speaking, totally hot, but regards her brain as her major asset.

    Phoar. Clearly I need to take up this World of Warcraft thing.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    But while its perfectly understandable why people want simple answers to complex problems and horrible tragedies, isn't it the responsibility of the media to be the cool, calm voice of reason and obstinate fact?

    Heh. Good luck banging that drum Craig!

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    If he was 15, I wouldn't keep control over his account, but I'd look in on it occasionally to see what he used it for, in much the same way before he went out to town with his friends I'd find out where he was going and who he was going with.

    Reason 1,099 why I would never want children. So hard, so hard, especially with teens, I think. My colleague at work has a 12 year old who wanted a bebo account. Fair enough, Mum says, as long as I get to edit the content and check what's on it. And she has, much to her daughter's chagrin. I just don't know that they understand, at such a tender age, about how many people will have access to their private thoughts and feelings, and how vulnerable that makes you.

    I attempted suicide when I was fourteen because I was a very, very unhappy wee chap.

    I'm sorry to hear that Craig, and very glad you didn't succeed. The world would be a much less interesting place without people like you, in it.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Belt,

    So … Some of the young people involved had Bebo profiles. Among several million other Bebo profiles is one which references Suicide Girls. Both stories invite youth suicide experts to express shock and horror.

    Yawn.

    Another incarnation of "the Internet is evil".

    Remember when all bombs, err, incendiary devices, errr, home-made explosives let off by curious teenagers were only possible through "recipes downloaded from the Internet"?

    It's always amused me that by the time the main stream media actually joined the Internet, those instant microwave stories with an "Internet is Evil" theme pretty much disappeared.

    Now that anyone over 30 doesn't "get" social networking sites (ok Russ, you're exempted), we have yet another instant microwave story container to use, abuse and reuse: Facebook/Myspace/Bebo/etc are EVIL...

    ...

    Mind you. If I was a parent of a vital teenager that took his/her own life, I'd be looking for answers, and in the absence of anything obvious (there so often doesn't seem to be anything), a social networking site and some peer pressure can start the healing process.

    (PS: I originally typed Facebook as Fecebook... heh)

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 49 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    The De-Press's latest fit of Beebophobia is proof that bad health reporting should be considered a public health issue?

    Don't get me started. The Press ran a story on annual std testing with the subtitle saying that the Ministry of Health was calling for annual testing of young women, when the Ministry was actually saying both young men and women should be tested. Last time I checked on stuff, it was running with a photo of someone getting a vaccination in their upper arm.

    Reading that kind of rubbish is certainly a challenge to my mental health.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Heh. Good luck banging that drum Craig!

    Well, I sure hope it's a drum Media Watch and the similar show that's been commissioned for TVNZ 6 is going to beat that drum good and hard. The media is always going to be a bullshit-rich environment but when we're talking about bad journalism that can (quite literally) be matters of life and death, then you've got to keep banging away.

    I'm sorry to hear that Craig, and very glad you didn't succeed.

    Pretty chuffed about that too -- but my point is that if you want to explain why I did what I did, latching on the pop culture bogeyman de jour (think it was MTV and the lyrics to 'Darling Nikki' at the time) is way too simple. And shame on The Press (and British papers I expect better from) for serving up the same old bullshit in a brand new box.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    You read the UK Independent? Why?

    Patrick Cockburn, son of the great Claud.

    Fallujah is more difficult to enter than any city in the world. On the road from Baghdad I counted 27 checkpoints, all manned by well-armed soldiers and police. "The siege is total," says Dr Kamal in Fallujah Hospital as he grimly lists his needs, which include everything from drugs and oxygen to electricity and clean water.


    The last time I tried to drive to Fallujah, several years ago, I was caught in the ambush of an American fuel convoy and had to crawl out of the car and lie beside the road with the driver while US soldiers and guerrillas exchanged gunfire. The road is now much safer but nobody is allowed to enter Fallujah who does not come from there and can prove it through elaborate identity documents. The city has been sealed off since November 2004 when United States Marines stormed it in an attack that left much of the city in ruins.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Yup, amazing that the same company employs Garth George.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    bad health reporting should be considered a public health issue

    I once floated the idea of scientific libel where if you publish something deliberately counterfactual you can be fined / fed to piranhas / used to demonstrate the first law of motion.

    Somewhat fascist though..

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    In the latter case, W.S. doesn't actually encourage you to commit a pack rape, then cut off your victim's tongue and hands when you're done so she can't nark on you.

    Yes: not as if, as a plan, it works very well.

    On the other hand, both Measure for Measure and All's Well That Ends Well amply display the benefits of having sex with men in dark rooms so they don't recognise you.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Somewhat fascist though..

    You say that like its a bad thing. :) Though, after seeing Sweeney Todd last night (bloody good, BTW) a string of shaving accidents followed by some creative cookery is more to my taste.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    I don't mean this question to sound glib, but has Shakespeare been taken off the curriculum in NSW and England?

    I don't know about there, but if you look at the list of banned books compiled by the Pelham Library, you'll find some WS. Here's a pdf of their 2008 list of books banned by fundy nutters. Farenheit 451 is of course included in at least one year (tho' to be pedantic, Bradbury was commenting on a generally anti-intellectual, instant-gratification culture rather than censorship per se).

    What was that law that stated that it's impossible to parody a fundamentalist because somewhere, one will have seriously stated a position that's even more absurd than anything you could imagine?

    Having had my experience with depression, I find this moral panic not only bone-headedly ignorant, but a vilely opportunistic example of journalistic necrophilia as well.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    Erratum: Pelham is not banning the books themselves, rather commenting on the kind of pressures that they have to suffer. Librarians tend to be liberal sorts, contrary to stereotype. Canadian one's especially so, I'd imagine.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Jamieson,

    It's not teh internets, it's teh tagging. Getting off on the wrong foot in '08, Manukau Mayor makes a complete mockery of the tragic fatal stabbing of an alleged tagger by a businessman, by blaming rising crime on ... taggers.

    In the RadioNZ news report this morning he was quoted as saying the Council would come down hard on taggers. Seems harsh to say the least....

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 99 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Jamieson,

    er, that's

    Manukau Mayor

    Len Brown, the new one, not Sir Barry, the one we've all heard of before.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 99 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    If I was a less-than-conventional adolescent living in Bridgend, I'd want to top myself too. Miserable place, nothing to do, even when you're an adult and have the option of getting pissed.

    As for the SG "confusion", I can't believe that those journalists didn't thoroughly check out the site. Decline of journalism... in my day... Penthouse in every desk with the whisky bottle... blah blah. Can't think of anything much more life-affirming than the SG site, personally.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    In the RadioNZ news report this morning he was quoted as saying the Council would come down hard on taggers. Seems harsh to say the least....

    How about zero tolerance for knife-wielding vigilantes, Mr Brown? And was I the only one who thought the blaring headline Herald A life for the sake of a tag kinda, sorta totally missed the point and has a rather distasteful subtext of 'well, that's one tagger scum who got what he deserved'.

    Call me a wet hoodie-hugging liberal wimp, but no matter how much I loathe tagging and traggers, I find the thought of folks stabbing them to death even worse.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    How about zero tolerance for knife-wielding vigilantes, Mr Brown?

    That would be Mr Jamieson. But I think he agreed with you too.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

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