Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Not so much ironic as outrageous

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  • Kracklite,

    Indeed, best wishes and hopes.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird,

    Speaking of dishonesty, all the lefties claiming that section 59 has not been repealed are being deliberately misleading. Section 59 for all practical purposes has been repealed. Adding some clause that the police may use discretion when deciding whether to lay charges was a nonsense. That would have applied in any case.

    Chester Borrows proposed amendment would have amended the legislation so that anyone who smacked a child with anything more than the lightest tap could have been convicted of assault. Nonetheless it would have been an amendment. To claim the present legislation is an amendment is totally dishonest and just an exercise in semantics.

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Repeal: To revoke or rescind, especially by an official or formal act.

    Amend: To alter, modify, rephrase, or add to or subtract from (a motion, bill, constitution, etc.) by formal procedure.

    I think what you're calling dishonesty, us lefties might call... correct. Because there's still a Section 59, it's just different.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Sophie Wilson,

    Sorry to barge in on the PA with irrelevant discussion but just to let everyone know, I'm Finn's partner and would like to add some info in case someone wants to contact me regarding this.

    hey everyone,

    finn higgins is a regular poster here on PA System, but this past monday he disappeared around 7pm.

    his partner is understandably worried about him, so i'm putting out word on her behalf.

    it's thought that he might have disappeared to auckland. we're hoping that is the case.

    finn is 26 years old, medium height, slim build, dark brown hair.

    he was wearing cargo pants and a black teeshirt, barefoot. he is in need of medical assistance.

    if you've seen him either get in touch with his partner, the police, or someone who can contact her. if you know where he is please ask him to contact home.

    (Thanks Che) Just to add to that, you can view his photo here with thanks to Hadyn Green (the hair is slightly longer in this photo): http://wellingtonista.com/wellingtonista-0

    My contact details: 0274655159; sophie@sophiewilson.info

    Also thanks Jackie, your thoughts are much appreciated :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2007 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    You're welcome Sophie. I know that all the members of the PA family are wishing you all a happy outcome to this shitty situation.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird,

    Kyle, that arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me. First the left thinks they know better than the vast majority of parents on how to raise children. The anti smacking law was the final straw. A short while ago this paedophile friendly government passed legislation to remove any doubt that the State has the right to arrange abortions for underage girls. Amongst other things this helps older males get away with having sex with much younger underage girls. The new prostitution legislation has meant more underage girls on the street.

    At present there is a situation where a 21 year old man impregnated a 13 year old girl. The sex started when she was 11. The man has admitted this. The police have declined to charge the man and according to the newspaper at the time was still carrying on with a sexual relationship. What message does this send to young men in their late teens or early 20s if they what sex with an underage girl or boy?

    Cindy Kiro supports the police in their inaction and Russell Brown supports Cindy. In my books this makes them little better than paedophiles themselves.

    Getting back to your reply. I do not need you tell give me a dictionary definition or “repeal” and “amend”. Do you know the definition of semantics?

    It appears a waste of time to trying to engage the left in intelligent debate. All they are capable of is name calling, distortion and out and out lies. Mike Williams’ denial of Glenn’s donation of a 100k interest free loan is but the latest example.

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Cindy Kiro supports the police in their inaction and Russell Brown supports Cindy. In my books this makes them little better than paedophiles themselves.

    Chuck, we've discussed this. It was Kiro who actually brought that case to light in a speech condemning the conspiracies of silence that allow abuse to go on. You would not even have known about it had it not been for her.

    The idea that this makes her "little better than a paedophile" is sick. And if you continue to abuse me in that manner, I will simply ban you. I have low tolerance for trolling.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • noizyboy,

    ...arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me...

    ... paedophile friendly government...

    ... It appears a waste of time to trying to engage the left in intelligent debate. All they are capable of is name calling, distortion and out and out lies...

    It's almost like Redbaiter has popped in to spread his wisdom on all things 'left'.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Kyle, that arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me.

    Well that wasn't the arrogance of the left, that was the arrogance of dictionary.com.

    But good luck with whatever else you dribbled out there. I blacked out once you got to the government being paedophile-friendly bit.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker,

    Kyle, that arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me. .... this paedophile friendly government ...... helps older males get away with having sex with much younger underage girls. .......
    Cindy Kiro supports the police in their inaction and Russell Brown supports Cindy. In my books this makes them little better than paedophiles themselves. ...................It appears a waste of time to trying to engage the left in intelligent debate. All they are capable of is name calling, distortion and out and out lies. .........

    that is the funniest parody I have read in a while, well done chuck.

    It is a joke isnt it? its got to be.

    At present there is a situation where a 21 year old man impregnated a 13 year old girl. The sex started when she was 11. The man has admitted this. The police have declined to charge the man and according to the newspaper at the time was still carrying on with a sexual relationship.

    I would be surprised if there wasnt a whole lot more about this situation than you know chuck, or arent letting on....

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    It is a joke isnt it? its got to be.

    What arrogance to even suggest this is a joke Samuel - don't you see that Chuck's demonstrating the intelligent debate that's so lacking in forums like this?

    And the name calling? - who among us would be insulted to be called a paedophile, or even paedophile friendly?

    Harden up, as that intelligent debater & non-name calling "Rightie" Dad4justice told me yesterdy.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird,

    Russell, if it was not for a gang member we would not have the medals back. Shoud we thank him? It is not relevant that Kiro raised the issue in a speech. She is making excuses for the police in not prosecuting. See link below.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=146&objectid=10478186

    There has been a confession. Kiro not replied to my email to justify her position and explain why the police should not prosecute.

    I expected your childish response. Typical of the left you are good enough at calling others names with little justification but cry foul when it happens to you.

    Kyle, do you not remember this government floating the idea of lowering the age of sexual consent to 12? After a public outcry they quickly dropped the idea. When you consider the increase in underage prostitutes I think the term paedophile friendly government is justified.

    Samuel, I know basically what is in the article that I linked to above. If you know anything about this case that justify the police inaction and Kiro’s support of the police’s inaction I would appreciate it.

    It appears that Russell supports the police for reason he seems to be unable to articulate. What is you position?

    I would also like to hear from other on the left who support Bradford’s ideologically driven anti smacking legislation? Do you support the police inaction and if so why?

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    do you not remember this government floating the idea of lowering the age of sexual consent to 12? After a public outcry they quickly dropped the idea. When you consider the increase in underage prostitutes I think the term paedophile friendly government is justified.

    Chuck, I think it was Phil Goff who floated the idea - but he was raising it as a discussion point. He was quickly shot down, but at least he got the idea discussed. But the caveat is that he was (as I recall) proposing some sort of amendment to the Age of Consent that would allow sex between 12-16 y.o.'s. In a minority of occasions this does happen, and under current law a 15 y.o. boy should be prosecuted for having sex with his 15 y.o. GF, even if she consented. I don't believe that Goff was proposing the law should allow 28 y.o. losers to have sex with impressionable 12 y.o.'s.

    When you consider the increase in underage prostitutes I think the term paedophile friendly government is justified.

    The law does not allow for underage prostitutes and no-one is in favour of it. Anyone having sex with an underage prostitute will be prosecuted vigorously if caught. I doubt the courts will accept "I thought she was 18 m'lud" as a defence.

    this paedophile friendly government passed legislation

    before anyone shoots down Chuck on this, they should see for themselves the little known legislation passed by the Government in secrecy last April 1st:
    __"Working for Paedo's"__

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • noizyboy,

    She is making excuses for the police in not prosecuting. See link below.

    Can you please quote the part of that article where Kiro makes excuses for the police's inaction?

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker,

    chuck,
    that post is a little less nonsensical than your prior one, well done on that point.

    you do understand that you made some bizzare accusations based on incredible leaps of reason and then used these to justify name calling. and then you signed off with :

    All they are capable of is name calling, distortion and out and out lies

    you do understand why this weakens your argument?

    Samuel, I know basically what is in the article that I linked to above. If you know anything about this case that justify the police inaction and Kiro’s support of the police’s inaction I would appreciate it.

    thanks for the link about the abuse. It is certainly not a simple case. I would NOT like to be the person that decides whether to charge, but I must agree that its a complex scenario. If they charge would they have to consider charging the mother? Is the 19-21 year old male of sound mind? It does seem clear that the girl involved would prefer the male to not be charged....is it in HER best interest to not proceed with charges?

    im not sure that this opens the doors to allow rampant paedophilia as you seem to be suggesting, and its certainly not as clear cut as your origional post suggested.

    Kyle, do you not remember this government floating the idea of lowering the age of sexual consent to 12? After a public outcry they quickly dropped the idea. When you consider the increase in underage prostitutes I think the term paedophile friendly government is justified.

    has there really been an increase in the amount of underage prostitution?

    and FYI, I think the whole right versus left Paradigm is a pretty weak base for ANY argument. Some humans do fit into that mould, but no way near all. And certainly not here.

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird,

    International Observer, you are roughly correct, I doubt if Goff being a parent floated this on his own initiative. The Labour Party uses others often to float or even promote ideas. We all know that under 16s are having sex but putting the official stamp on this further undermines parental authority as does this anti smacking legislation. It would also have the effect of having sex with a minor appear less serious that it is.

    As I recall the proposal called for some sort of age difference. Let us say it was three years. Under present law if an 18 year old has sex with a 15 year old the police may or may not prosecute. If the minor was say 14 the police certainly should prosecute not withstanding the present case we are discussing. Under proposed legislation the police could not prosecute in the first scenario. If the age gap was four years and the girl was 14 the boy would argue she was only a little under the age and the police would be less likely to prosecute than under existing law. This would work just like lowering the drinking age.

    The proposed law would even make sex where there is a large age gap seem less serious. If a 28 year old has sex with a 15 year old it is considered serious as the minor is under the age of consent. Under the proposed law change the minor is below the age of consent under some circumstances. As a father and a grandfather I felt quite sick at the proposal.

    In regard the prostitution law reform there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the number of underage prostitutes has increased. Some of this comes from within the industry.

    Unfortunately, your link does not work. Would you please check it or cut and paste.

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird,

    Noizyboy, the quote is below.

    The pregnancy was highlighted last week by Children’s Commissioner Cindy Kiro, who used the case to illustrate “the wall of silence” protecting people who committed child abuse.

    The girl had started having sex from the age of 11 and Kiro claimed that no one in her family would come forward and shed any light on who was responsible.

    When she gave that talk she did not tell the audience that the police had a confession. She was falsely giving the impression that the police did not have enough evidence to prosecute. As Commissioner for Children she should be pushing for the police to prosecute as is Sandz Peipi of Rape Crisis in the article.

    I am still waiting for a reply from Kiro.

    http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124

    A link to my letter to her is above.

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • Josh Addison,

    I remember that proposal of Goff's - it suggested a two year age difference. The intention, of course, being that an 17-year-old who has sex with this 15-year-old girlfriend is not branded a paedophile and thrown in prison. How this makes a 28-year-old having sex with a 15-year-old a less serious offence I have no idea - the difference between the two cases is obvious to me.

    Furthermore, the proposal was to apply down to the age of 12, meaning that you could avoid a statutory rape charge for having sex with a 12-year-old only if you were 14 or younger. Painting that as "lowering the age of consent to 12" - now that's dishonesty.

    Onehunga, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 298 posts Report Reply

  • Chuck Bird,

    Samuel, I am amazed at your reply especially for someone not hiding behind a pseudonym. The police should not consider charging the mother. They should charge the mother. That is of course if this article is accurately reported and the mother did have knowledge that her 11 year old daughter was have sex with a 19 year old young man.

    I fail to see how anyone can say it is a complex issue on whether to charge a young adult for having sex with an 11 year old. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but frankly I think yours is a bit sick. If that is considered name calling I think it is well justified.
    Does anyone else on this forum support Samuel? If so, please state if you are a parent.

    Since Apr 2007 • 55 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    Chuck - You ment pinot-philes - wine loves - right?

    As for Sue anti-bashing bill - it's simply modelling behaviour. We don't give corporal punishment to the worst of our prisoners (or not officially sanctioned anyway) & so too bashing kids for being kids is just wrong.

    Having lived in afew family homes where some kids had been sexual assulted. Even when prosecutions were successful jail didn't always follow & the question of was it worth going through the trial often came up. This maybe part of the police considerations when building their case.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Does anyone else on this forum support Samuel?

    I support him in that he's asking for more information to make a sound judgement. (you should totally try that).

    If you think he's defending paedophiles, have another read.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Does anyone else on this forum support Samuel? If so, please state if you are a parent.

    I'll put my hand up (in the face of your aggressive demanding attitude) to support the comments made regarding complexity, particularly the complexity associated with exactly what good comes from charging these people. I agree that the mother and the father-of-the-baby seem to have been highly, highly questionable in their conduct here and at least the father-of-the-baby has clearly broken the law (I'm not sure what law the mother may have broken).
    But an outright, insistent demand that charges are laid, when the police clearly think it may be counter-productive for the people involved is just blind ideology.
    It seems some very questionable things went down here, and I would in general course expect charges to be laid but can see that sometimes laying charges may not serve any end. And soothing the moral outrage of people entirely unconnected is not an end the police should put a lot of weight on.

    Oh, and I'm not going to comment at all on my parental status - you have no right to demand the information, and it doesn't have a bearing on the validity of my argument. You will undoubtedly take that as "proof" that I am not a parent...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker,

    chuck,

    did I state that I agree with the polices actions? nope, and I am not even going to be drawn into that. I DO know that even if the 'victim' is willing it can be heinously wrong.

    my main point is that the scenario is WAY more complex than you painted in your origional post. which was the basis of you somehow calling certain people proxy paedophiles.

    If you read that and somehow manage to make a leap of logic to me saying I would allow any 11 year old girl to have a sexual relationship with a 19 year old man. then you seriously need to review your comprehension skills.

    I bet you win most of your arguments just due to the fact that you confuse the heck out of people!!!

    Does anyone else on this forum support Samuel? If so, please state if you are a parent.

    since you asked, did anyone else take my reply the same way as chuck did?

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker,

    thanks Gareth and Andrew,

    Chuck really hit me hard with that comment.


    Also chuck, what bearing does any individuals parenthood status have on their outlook about such issues? you are aware that many perpertrators of such crimes are parents themselves, arent you?

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    thanks Gareth and Andrew,

    Chuck really hit me hard with that comment.

    I'm presuming people are not taking Chuck too seriously , but I'll keep an eye on it.

    If anyone is interested in more of this kind of discourse, there are a number of popular local blogs I can recommend.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

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