Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you

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  • Islander, in reply to recordari,

    Aw, go on - do it!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Sacha,

    I am Sgt Schultz. Personified.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Sacha,

    No, it wasn't. That was "Don't be a dick."

    Damn, and I was going to talk about cars.

    At least two of my threads have been derailed by conversations about cars. I secretly love it. I find the organic nature of the conversation delightful.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    I'm sure he wasn't from a tycoon's family, but.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    That was "Don't be a dick."

    A big improvement on "don't have one".
    #progress

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Sacha,

    I don't know about that. But TBH Capt of Industry and Tycoon? 2 enormously different propositions. And see how much more privileged I should have been?

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Magnate?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Sacha,

    No no no. Magnate and tycoon imply shitloads of money. Even though my upbringing was privileged for the time, - we had a bach, and a boat (well, several, but they weren't pleasure craft) and a nice house, and we all went to good schools, and university - by today's obscenely monied families standards, we would have been the poor country cousins.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report

  • recordari, in reply to Islander,

    Aw, go on – do it!

    Ok, just a little. The Gazelle was our wedding car. The funniest part was when the rather nice hotel we stayed in, with valet parking, had to ask us to park it ourselves, because of all those nasty gears, and that clutch thingy. Speaking of which, the first thing I had to do when I got the Superminx in Wellington was change the clutch.

    Of course they’re a poet’s car, to be sure;


    On the floor of her bedroom lie blazer and shorts,
    And the cream-coloured walls are be-trophied with sports,
    And westering, questioning settles the sun,
    On your low-leaded window, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn.

    The Hillman is waiting, the light’s in the hall,
    The pictures of Egypt are bright on the wall,
    My sweet, I am standing beside the oak stair
    And there on the landing’s the light on your hair.

    By roads ‘not adopted’, by woodlanded ways,
    She drove to the club in the late summer haze,
    Into nine-o’clock Camberley, heavy with bells
    And mushroomy, pine-woody, evergreen smells.

    John Betjeman A Subaltern’s Love Song.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report

  • bmk,

    The funny thing is how (in my experience) people with lots of money and expensive lifestyles have told me about how the two are different sets of people. A lot of people with loads of money live relatively normal lives, living in a fairly average house and having a nice car but nothing extravagant. Whereas the people living in mansions with expensive cars seldom had that high a net worth as they had massively high debt.

    When I thought about this it made sense in that the people who lived averagely while earning a lot would accumulate wealth. While people who live an expensive lifestyle would probably spend it as fast as they earn it.

    As people the first group are far more pleasant than the second group. I have nothing against people who have a lot of money. But people who want everyone to know that they have more money than you aren't as easy to like.

    Since Jun 2010 • 327 posts Report

  • Lilith __, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Actually, there’s a long-established pattern of people coming in a bit bristly then eventually getting the rhythm of the place and becoming highly valued contributors. Like you. And recordari.

    Lilith, as I recall, came in to comment on Emma’s chronic fatigue syndrome, took a short while to get her bearings, and has been an excellent new voice.

    Crikey, I go away for a couple of hours and then have all this reading to catch up on! You are all so clever and interesting. And cheers, Russell. :-)

    Emma’s CFS thread got me fired up to join in, when I had felt rather daunted and self-conscious. It’s a subject with a lot of personal significance for me, and I’m aware I was rather aggressive about it at first. But it did slowly dawn on me that people were hearing what I had to say, even if not everyone agreed. And it’s so great to be heard, especially by so many people. So all you lurkers out there: it might be scary at first, but it’s so rewarding to be part of the conversation.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report

  • andin, in reply to recordari,

    because of all those nasty gears, and that clutch thingy.

    And a column shifter! My only Hillman was a Californian
    Cream and Green

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to bmk,

    wealth

    allows a rather different relationship with opportunity and security than poverty offers. Hence the p word.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • recordari, in reply to andin,

    And a column shifter! My only Hillman was a Californian

    Awesome! Still dreaming of the Sunbeam Rapier Series 3a Convertible. Now that’s a car of privilege.

    ETA: 'And a column shifter!' Funny how I'd forgotten that added complication, as it just seemed 'normal'. He did look rather bemused.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report

  • bmk, in reply to Sacha,

    Yes I understand that. Was just making (I guess kind of randomly - not even sure how it was meant to tie in with what was being discussed) the observation that a lot of people who need to show how wealthy they are often aren't at all.

    Since Jun 2010 • 327 posts Report

  • Megan Wegan,

    I don’t think that’s anything to apologise for – au contraire, I think it’s something to use for the good. Pay it forward. That’s all that “privilege” or, as I like to call it, good fortune, is good for.

    But that's not what privilege is. And that's where my problem with it being bandied about as an attack comes from.

    It's not something to apologise for. It's something to remember, and to work towards acknowledging. As a white, cis, hetero woman, I am chock full of it, and I try to remember that when I am talking to people. Because words hurt. And casual sexism/classism/racism/choose-your-ism hurt more.

    In all the writing around SlutWalk, I saw so many references to "women" being the victims of sexual assault. And Emma and I tried really hard to make sure we talk about male victims as well. Others didn't. That's a kind of privilege. Because society thinks rape is something that only happens to women, and so all the conversations are about that, and it erases other victims.

    The problem is, when people scream "you're showing your privilege", it often shuts out genuine debate, because people don't like saying "um, no, I don't think I am".

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report

  • Islander, in reply to andin,

    Oooh! THAT IS LOVERLY!
    Hillmans were another family thing (for vehicles...)
    Mind you, I do not wish to discuss my beloved & esteemed mother's purchase of a Hillman Imp...

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report

  • Megan Wegan,

    Someone (Ben?) asked a couple of pages back what got some people to comment?

    For me, it was a lot of things. I don't comment on the political posts, because professionally, it is difficult. But also, I was intimidated by the Very Smart People here. Invariably, I'd go to say something, and someone else would already have said it much better. And with more evidence, and having actually read a book about it. And then, Hadyn starting writing about sport, and he was my friend, so it was less intimidating, and something I could talk about it.

    And then I started commenting on Emma's posts, and that was that. I am very glad I got over my fear of not being smart enough, and pretty comfortable with my role as Emma's yappy, filthy little sidekick.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report

  • Danielle, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    But that’s not what privilege is.

    Yeah, in this particular context, that word isn't about how you as an individual were brought up, or how much money your parents had, or whatever. It's about shit you don't have to deal with because society treats your... qualities? characteristics?... as normative.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report

  • Megan Wegan, in reply to Danielle,

    And there she goes, proving my point about how sometimes people say things better than I can.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report

  • Stephanie,

    Someone (Ben?) asked a couple of pages back what got some people to comment?

    I've noticed that I only comment when people talk about lurkers - pretty sure this was the last time I commented, ooh, about 4 years ago. I'm the archetypal lurker. I'd offer myself as a research subject but I'm too busy lurking to answer any research questionnaires.

    Lower Hutt • Since Dec 2007 • 21 posts Report

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    Ah, yes. If I may. "Since social status is conferred in many different ways — everything from race to geography to class — all people are both privileged and non-privileged in certain aspects of their life. Furthermore, since dynamics of social status are highly dependent on situation, a person can benefit from privilege in one situation while not benefiting from it in another. It is also possible to have a situation in which a person simultaneously is the beneficiary of privilege while also being the recipient of discrimination in an area which they do not benefit from privilege." Which is my point, entirely. And it is why I don't like the term. Normative is far less highly charged, for me at any rate.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Danielle,

    It's about shit you don't have to deal with because society treats your... qualities? characteristics?... as normative

    Yes. When our way of being in the world matches the main way that society and institutions are set up we have (often unquestioned) power. Along many dimensions.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Sacha,

    Makes it harder - but not impossible - to empathise with non-dominant experiences. Which is a weakness rather than a strength.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Jackie Clark,

    And also? I work in ECE, which is one of the MOST politically correct sectors, and have done so for 15 years. No-one has ever ever ever used the p word. Ever. The terms used are far more pragmatic. In my world, palagi is the p word that's used to imply that someone's up themselves. Ironically, the kids tell me I'm Maori. Because that means I am less snobby than palagi, but they know I ain't Pasifika.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report

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