Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies

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  • Danielle, in reply to BenWilson,

    The problem is really that these would be charges brought out of frustration about the inability to bring the more serious charges about which everyone really is very outraged.

    Yes, but see Brent's post above. In a sane world their priority would be *stopping other girls getting raped*, not *seeing if we can ping them for the biggest crime ever by sitting on our asses*.

    Of course, if you believe, as I do, that this "their hands were tied" line is utter CYA tosh, then the point is moot.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Brown,

    Auckland • Since Mar 2013 • 137 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    It appears as if the police are fixated on the idea of protecting society by locking criminals away for as long as possible, rather than trying to get law-breakers to change their behaviour.

    It's just a matter of time before Garth Mcvicar gets wheeled out with his expert opinion on this.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4356 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston,

    The technicalities of the law and police action on this leaves me cold. I say that with respect for the nuances of legal debate and those carrying it.

    For me its a moral issue and how a young mans moral compass is formed - or not. How the hell did these boys - I refuse to call them men - grow up thinking this was all right , something to be proud of, something to even publicly show off about?
    What the hell went wrong in the development of their moral compass ?
    Where were the older men in their lives showing by example what it really means to be a man.
    Who missed telling them a real man, an honorable man would not countenance having sex with drunk, incapacitated or just plain young women.
    How the hell did they grow up with so little respect for women?

    It seems to be about power and prestige but who is giving them the prestige?

    Who is not challenging them - gently but firmly, letting them know its not power its a tragic weakness.

    The police are just there to pick up the pieces when us adults allow a moral failure to flourish and grow

    And no I am not supporting the vigilante fathers - though as a father of girls I can understand the impulse - fear will not shift the swampy moral ground either.

    Sorry for the rant but I just realized that if that was my son, I would feel I had failed him.

    Northland • Since Nov 2006 • 509 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Martin Brown,

    A corporate “sorry” from the Radio Live presenters. Hmmm.

    Stuff reports on same story...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7902 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Martin Brown,

    A corporate “sorry” from the Radio Live presenters. Hmmm.

    I believe there have been a number of complaints to the BSA. RadioLoathed has taken down the full interview. Looks like the "shock jock" approach has backfired a bit much and they're in damage control.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Lilith __,

    Ben, at least some of the girls concerned were semi-conscious. At any age, this is a condition in which it’s not possible to consent.

    I fully understand and agree with that, have not denied it, and have thought right from the start that these guys are rapists.

    Of course, if you believe, as I do, that this “their hands were tied” line is utter CYA tosh, then the point is moot.

    I don't know what to believe on that. There are a massive number of failed police prosecutions of rapists. It happens that way more often than not. I guess that even if failure is highly likely, just taking people to court makes it very hard for them to do anything more. This isn't something restricted to NZ. It happens everywhere. It's also happening in huge volume. It's possible the police are lazy or turning a blind eye, but it's possible they really are telling the truth that they just don't have enough resources not to have the policy of only prosecuting when there is a complainant to actually work with. I just don't know.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10647 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Richard Aston,

    Who missed telling them a real man, an honorable man would not countenance having sex with drunk, incapacitated or just plain young women.
    How the hell did they grow up with so little respect for women?

    Probably they learned exactly this from the men in their lives. This is the source of the problem, that there are still plenty of "grown men" in this country who thing "Ugh! Fuck now!" constitutes foreplay, and that any woman is 'fair game', especially if she's off her face. That's what rape culture IS! How can you have got through 12 pages of these comments and not got that yet?

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to BenWilson,

    I don’t know what to believe on that.

    I'm going with "believing they're totally full of shit", but I am famously uncharitable. :)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston, in reply to nzlemming,

    How can you have got through 12 pages of these comments and not got that yet?

    Oh I got it all right , my questions were rhetorical .

    Northland • Since Nov 2006 • 509 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Richard Aston,

    Oh I got it all right , my questions were rhetorical .

    My mistake. Sorry.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Miche Campbell, in reply to Martin Brown,

    And a bloody weaksauce apology it was, too.

    Dunedin • Since Feb 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Martin Brown,

    Shallow hypocritical, insincere phoney bullshit. Radio Undead were quite happy to profit from rape apology and slut-shaming to make their advertising dollars until the polls said that they'd done a boo-boo - ie., endangered their ratings.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    The Radio Live broadcasters "do not condone" the actions of the Roast Busters. Give me strength.

    That's the language of the PR hack when some sports celeb has called the ref a wanker, and been caught on camera. "With the benefit of hindsight ... not well-chosen ... any offence caused" etc.

    You "do not condone" silly things people say. Not crimes people commit. That requires a whole different lexicon.

    In short, it's all too clear they don't get it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1326 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Aston, in reply to simon g,

    In short, it’s all too clear they don’t get it.

    Yes did you notice the last line by Tamihere

    Mr Tamihere also levelled some criticism at the media reporting of the interview, saying "there's a bunch of people in the media that hate our guts

    Yeah right , first its the girls fault now its the media's fault .

    Northland • Since Nov 2006 • 509 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rageaholic,

    Are there rules about the police having reason to believe that a person is going to harm someone and not stopping it?

    Here is the Police Oath .

    I, [name], swear that I will faithfully and diligently serve Her (or His) Majesty [specify the name of the reigning Sovereign], Queen (or King) of New Zealand, her (or his) heirs and successors, without favour or affection, malice or ill-will. While a constable I will, to the best of my power, keep the peace and prevent offences against the peace, and will, to the best of my skill and knowledge, perform all the duties of the office of constable according to law. So help me God."

    So I'd say yes, the Police have a duty to prevent further rape from these sick teenagers.

    However, after reading this|wiki entry on our PoliceI am not surprised that we have got where we are today.

    Poor prosecution of sexual abuse cases[edit]

    In 2008 there was a public scandal regarding the failure of police to investigate a backlog of sexual abuse cases in the Wairarapa. A police investigation, dubbed Operation Hope, reviewed 550 files in Wairarapa and 7000 child-abuse files nationwide going back more than 25 years. The investigation found that the police had failed hundreds of children reported as sexually abused by family members "through delays, poor investigations and improper filing".

    Detective Senior Sergeant Mark McHattie, and 17 other police officers were investigated. Mr McHattie, then head of the Masterton CIB, claimed that 142 files had been reduced to just 29 in three months. However, the Independent Police Conduct Authority later found 33 had been "filed incorrectly" or "inappropriately resolved". Mr Hattie received an unspecified disciplinary "outcome" and has since been promoted as head of the Auckland CIB's serious crime unit.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Brown, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/26/kym-worthy-detroit-forgotten-rapes

    This is that on a much larger, more appalling scale. Detroit's shame.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2013 • 137 posts Report Reply

  • Rageaholic, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Mr Hattie received an unspecified disciplinary "outcome" and has since been promoted as head of the Auckland CIB's serious crime unit.

    Terrifying.

    Thank you for the info. From the oath it sounds to me as if the police should have been working to "keep the peace and prevent offences against the peace" by making more of an effort to minimise the amount of rapes that occurred, not waiting and seeing until they could get a better conviction.

    Eden • Since Nov 2010 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Latest revelations make me eat my words - a 13 year old victim made a complaint and then got talked out of pressing charges by police. Something is very wrong with that. It doesn't matter what she's wearing if when it comes to underage sex. Not that it should matter in rape either, but there was at least one straightforward crime to deal with there.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10647 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Latest revelations make me eat my words – a 13 year old victim made a complaint and then got talked out of pressing charges by police.

    You know what, it may be consitutionally improper but I'd be totally OK with the Police Minister *cough* clearly signalling to the Police Commissioner that she would happily accept his resignation, and those of everyone involved in this foul abdication of responsibility.

    I think it's time the NZ Police Force, from nose to tail, decide who they serve -- and "rapists" is the wrong, career-ending answer.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I’d be totally OK with the Police Minister *cough* clearly signalling to the Police Commissioner that she would happily accept his resignation,

    Thank you Craig. Ben's post left me in speechless horrorrage. I certainly do not disagree with your suggestion, and it would be nice to think perhaps the relevant minister would be reading this thinking, "That Ranapia, he's a smart guy, I might just take his advice." Not holding my breath, though.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    What Craig said, times a million.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3890 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH, in reply to BenWilson,

    ...it might have led to a prosecution for sex with a person under 16, and maybe other charges relating to the taking of non-consenting explicit photos.

    The problem is really that these would be charges brought out of frustration about the inability to bring the more serious charges about which everyone really is very outraged.

    If they were tried and jailed for sex with one victim under the age of 16 that would not in any way prevent them from prosecuting rape charges against other victims at a later date. And it would have prevented further crimes.

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH, in reply to BenWilson,

    Latest revelations make me eat my words – a 13 year old victim made a complaint and then got talked out of pressing charges by police.

    Fuck.

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to BenWilson,

    Latest revelations make me eat my words – a 13 year old victim made a complaint and then got talked out of pressing charges by police.

    Where did this come from, Ben? Not seeing it on stuff or the harold.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

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