Hard News: Misquote Unquote
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Sophie, no matter what the original ideal of the Olympics, they now stand more for the self aggrandisement of national leaders rather than any unifying principal.
I may have been ambiguous . I realise that politics play a large part of the Olympics but cant find any time that a country has been banned from hosting.There has been much controversy,with different boycotts,and NZ has even been reason for a boycott. China knows its history, we know some,if they want to host the Olympics, they should expect controversy .Haven't heard of any nz athletes not going yet.If all new Zealand athletes pulled out, NZ could/would have to pull out, then what message would that be to China? I imagine it wouldn't require government to do anything.
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More interesting writing on Tibet:
The NYT has a piece by author Patrick French that explains the many deficits that ethnic Tibetans face, and frankly doubts that 20 years of Richard Gere-style Tibet lobbying has done them a blind bit of good.
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169-4 at drinks (or as Bryson would put it, Third Snack). If you're interested.
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all that moral hazard stuff really
Because your average punter looking for an EFTPOS card and somewhere to bank their wages is fully able to understand bank disclosure statements and judge the relative level of risk. I mean, we all know what Tier I capital requirements are, don't we?
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Rich of Ob,
Much gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair etc on the Sportsfreak forum.For example, Sinclair has had 5 “last chance tests” so far this season. Would that be a record?
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but on past form it'll be roiling with declarations of Chinese nationalism from angry young men
heh heh. I could have added to my earlier anecdote that something I found fascinating about the Chinese I interacted with was their fierce patriotism. They may have 'escaped' China and have horrifying stories of life under communist rule, but gawd help you if you try to diss China. Weird was the pride they had in the spirit of that chap who stopped the tank in Tiannenmen Square with his shopping bags, whilst at the same time openly derissive of the thought that he could change anything.
A little soft, pragmatic nationalism in the midst of a global banking mess would also go down well, but that's not what they've gone for.
I am available for any TV commercials they may wish to make. My shares in four Aussie banks (who own 'our' four) have all dropped 20-30% in the last two months! I coincidently met a chap from high up one of those four at the weekend. He said it was going to be very bumpy in the next few months. Turns out the markets run on 'sentiment' and until everyone calms down a simple fart could potentially wipe out a whole industry sector. For no reason other than the fear that smell could be permanent (as if). Once Mum & Dad investors have fled the market guess who's buying up the shares at bargain prices? The rich will get richer ...
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Ed Douglas, the climbing correspondent of the Guardian helps sort out our views on the Tibet situation.
Putting the Olympic flame on the summit of Mount Everest must have seemed a great idea to the planning committee of the Beijing Olympics. What better expression of China's inexorable rise to superpower status could there be? Everest was the crowning glory for the Queen in 1953. So it would be for China's political elite.
Now the game is up.
He also unravels some of the complexities of how to react when faced directly with overt power when he wrote about the shooting of a young nun in front of western climbers last year.
Chinese Police recently shot and killed a 17-year-old Tibetan nun in full view of Cho Oyu Base Camp. Should mountaineers care? Ed Douglas thinks so.
It is shocking footage. A line of people is shuffling up a shallow snow-slope from left to right. They are trying to hurry, and you can almost hear their panicked breathing in the thin air at 19,000ft. One of the black shapes is out in front, moving a little faster than the others. Then it drops like a stone.For Vaclav Havel it is all too familiar
The reaction of the Chinese authorities to the Tibetan protests evokes echoes of the totalitarian practices that many of us remember from the days before communism in Central and Eastern Europe collapsed in 1989: harsh censorship of the domestic media, blackouts of reporting by foreign media from China, refusal of visas to foreign journalists, and blaming the unrest on the "Dalai Lama's conspiratorial clique" and other unspecified dark forces supposedly manipulated from abroad. Indeed, the language used by some Chinese government representatives and the official Chinese media is a reminder of the worst of times during the Stalinist and Maoist eras. But the most dangerous development of this unfortunate situation is the current attempt to seal off Tibet from the rest of the world.
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Because your average punter looking for an EFTPOS card and somewhere to bank their wages is fully able to understand bank disclosure statements and judge the relative level of risk. I mean, we all know what Tier I capital requirements are, don't we?
Well there is a point in between - generally the RB here is aiming for a highly transparent banking system rather than messing with the risk profiles that come when depositor insurance is introduced. And I can understand that to a certain degree, but yes if a bank were to fail then we would be instantly looking to a Reserve Bank bailout - note that this is all depositor insurance is in the end, so perhaps they simply internally agree that they would ensure partial liquidity in a bank collapse but don't want to state it to avoid moral hazard.
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For goodness sake. Just say "circumstances change" or something. That's perfectly alright. But please, don’t make a claim to have been misquoted your standard response when it's suggested that you've changed your mind. It's not a very good thing to say to a journalist.
You’re totally right Russell. I think we’re now seeing the so-far so-timid media frame around John Key change to is this guy really up to being Prime Minister? And the answer seems to be not really.
A hope and a smile will only get you so far, but whenever he is asked to talk about policy – it comes out all wrong. Or not at all. And my sense is that the concern around Mr Key actually not having anything much to offer is seeping through the wider electorate.
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Ed Douglas, the climbing correspondent of the Guardian helps sort out our views on the Tibet situation.
Actually, I think the debate in the comments below the column is is the best part. It's vigorous and interesting.
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"You’re totally right Russell. I think we’re now seeing the so-far so-timid media frame around John Key change to is this guy really up to being Prime Minister? And the answer seems to be not really." Conor Roberts
I'd like to think so, but it's not the job of the media in a capitalist liberal democracy to ask those sorts of questions. It's to make money by putting bums on seats and readers in front of newspapers, by finding or manufacturing conflict. Increasingly the latter. But then you knew that.
So, have the media perhaps figured that a completely one-sided election fight won't generate the viewers/readers required for the advertiasers? Maybe. I think the Herald's a lost cause altogether this time round, though.
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And my sense is that the concern around Mr Key actually not having anything much to offer is seeping through the wider electorate.
In the interests of full disclosure, Mr Roberts, anything you'd like to share with the class that might suggest your perspective on John Key is a little less than entirely disinterested?
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Penn and Teller treat the Dalai Lama with the particular sensitivity they reserve for religious figures. I didn't know he'd taken CIA dollars. OTOH, their assumption that given the chance to return home he'd bring back vicious feudalism is fatuous.
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vigorous and interesting
Compared with the usual purple-inked drooling on Guardian comments forums, it isn't that bad. I got about halfway through the rival 1000-word historical essays before giving up.
For me the point is simple. It's not really down to whether the Mongol's at some stage conquered Tibet, bringing it within the Glorious Greater Chinese Empire. It's that a lot of Tibetans seem to be somewhat opposed to Chinese rule.
China could sort this by giving Tibetans basic human rights and a plebiscite on whether to become independent, have autonomy within China or remain as today. Instead, they shoot 17-year old kids.
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China could sort this by giving Tibetans basic human rights and a plebiscite on whether to become independent, have autonomy within China or remain as today. Instead, they shoot 17-year old kids.
Depends what you mean by "Tibetans". A referendum of all citizens of the Tibetan Autonomous Region would probably -- especially after the recent conflict -- wind up with an endorsement of Chinese rule.
A referendum amongst ethnic Tibetans, who work largely in the rural economy and tend not to get the good jobs, would come up differently. But then what would you do with the more than 50% of the population who are Han Chinese or Muslim?
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Actually, I think the debate in the comments below the column is is the best part. It's vigorous and interesting.
It's nearly as good as PAS.
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Similar to Northern Ireland and South Africa (not to mention, to a much lesser degree, New Zealand). What rational people did in those countries was to come to an arrangement where minorities had their rights and culture respected by the majority.
The present Chinese regime isn't going anywhere near that. It simply wants to destroy anyone who disputes its right to hegemony.
Which is why, although we *have* to deal with them economically, as decent people we should keep this to a minimum and not be cowed from speaking out.
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Just to show there are actual humans inside those big media brands, Jamil Anderlini emailed to note his piece from last week on Chinese public sympathy for Tibet, or, rather, the lack thereof:
One intellectual from Beijing, usually vehemently opposed to the party, said Tibetans had been "slaves" before China "liberated" them, an act repaid with ingratitude and violence. "How could Tibet be a country without China?" this person said.
"They didn't have anything to eat before they were liberated."
The issue of sovereignty goes beyond support for the party and touches the core of national identity. To suggest to most Chinese that Tibet should be independent from China is like telling an American that Texas should secede from the Union.
A profanity-laced video posted on YouTube, the video-sharing website, entitled "Tibet WAS, IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE a part of China" angrily tells viewers that China will not leave Tibet until all Europeans leave Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the United States and return it to "the natives".
And Phil O'Sullivan at CNN emailed to note that they're not seeing video of security force brutality: "even when Yangon was totally locked down during the monks uprising last year, footage was getting out of army and police violence against the people. Interestingly we have seen very little, if any, from inside Tibet, of Chinese troops behaving badly. Admittedly there is a media lockdown but with technology these days, something generally gets through."
He doesn't see China bending, lest the Uighurs in Xingjiang and some of the other hundred or so ethnic minorities get ideas.
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Which is why, although we *have* to deal with them economically, as decent people we should keep this to a minimum and not be cowed from speaking out.
This what I think too. I realise Helen Clark has to walk a tricky tightrope but she is wrong to give the okay to the Olympic Flame going through Tibet under the current conditions. It is not China's Olympics but the World's.
At Olympia in Greece, last night the Olympic flame was lit as Reporters Without Borders managed to stage a protest which was quickly cut out by Chinese editing crews before sent "live" back to China.
One of the major grounds for China to get the Olympics was its promise to allow free press during the event, a promise that is now crumbling.
"Either Tibet is open or it's not. If it is, let independent monitors and the media go there. If it's not, the torch shouldn't go there either," said Sophie Richardson, Asia advocacy director for Human Rights Watch. "The Olympic torch should not be turned into a smokescreen to cover up human rights abuses."
Such abuses are in violation with both the Olympic Charter and of the basic principles of corporate social responsibility, said the Human Rights Watch spokeswoman, urging sponsors and organizers to think twice about their involvement. "Acting responsibly is good publicity. Being morally blind is not," Richardson said.
From Explorer's Web
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Interesting discussions on Tibet. In respect of a neighbouring country (Nepal), at the time of Ed Hillary's death that there was absolutely no mention of the activities of Maoist rebels in that country, and how they are effectively wrecking the country. So there is imperialism and imperialism...
For something completely different: did anyone else go to the BluesFest in Whitianga this Easter? It was an odd mix of artists and rather badly organised eg 70 minutes delay for Wilco, who really were the best thing there. Buddy Guy was electric (so to speak) but his act seemed rather over-rehearsed and on automatic. And will anyone admit going to the BoganFest in Wellington?
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"It's SkyKiwi, although its audience is younger than ours.
Anyone who can read it and would be minded to provide a digest in translation should, of course, go right ahead."
I was thinking of a china with a free press but you're right , someone should translate skykiwi so we can see how our local chinese brothers and sisters are seeing everything.What the hell is china today anyway? Could it split up naturally , violently, peacefully? Would it be soon?
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Here's the YouTube clip Jamil mentioned:
I think I said something upthread about young Chinese men and nationalism. This one's Canadian-based. It is actually worth looking at. The guy has 1400 subscribers.
He also has has a Facebook page, which features extended video from Llasa TV (state-controlled, of course, but it's interesting to see what pictures people saw -- serious damage, basically) and a cross-cultural shouting match or two.
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"They didn't have anything to eat before they were liberated."
To me, those words could have come straight out of the mouths of a New Zealand settler in about 1880, speaking of Maori. Or Chief Justice Prendergast, talking of "mere savages".
Re: Maoist rebels in Nepal, they have come to a form of settlement since the King gave up his absolute powers last year. And they have received little recent help from China (a cynic would argue that the Chinese don't want any of that Maoism spreading back into their country).
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A right bit of strident jingoism, that Youtube clip from Canada. He does undermine his argument a little by his reference to 'treated them as salves'!!!
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Not trying to offend anyone here but that youtube clip was amazing.
That Love for that nation, thousands of years of love . Fundamentally indigineous. My whitelady / hairy fucking iceman mishmash dna is only clocking 100 for New Zealand. Beautiful,fucked up and angry . The only way your going to understand this thing is to get your head around the passion of being identified so strongly to a large part of the eastern earth. That’s quite hard to appreciate when people seem to be quitting N.Z and the AllBlacks after 110, the allblacks !!!!!it’s the only sacred thing we have in New Zealand goddammit , bring back terry wright.
“that China will not leave Tibet until all Europeans leave Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the United States and return it to "the natives".
Keith Locke should ask this question in Parliament and he should ask it to Winston Peters.
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