Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Media3: Panic or Peril?

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  • Sacha,

    Interesting how the focus still seems to be mainly on the sexuality of girls not boys. Hope you get to explore aspects like that. Sad I won't be at the filming in person this week.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    Interesting how the focus still seems to be mainly on the sexuality of girls not boys. Hope you get to explore aspects like that. Sad I won’t be at the filming in person this week.

    And how. Seems it's mostly about 'jailbait' and 'uncovered meat', and not much about 'young, dumb and full of cum'.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    The Lizi Patch article is worth a read.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Emma, Emma, wherefore art thou?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    I'm concerned about it. I've been concerned about it for the last 8 yrs or so. For me, the dreaded menace is the music videos. The sexualised dancing is noticeable. The singing of explicit lyrics by three year olds is noticeable. Whilst our girls - and by our, I mean the children I teach - are getting more assertive, and better at saying what they want, younger, they are also more stuck in how they look, what they wear. (And these are all PI kids from church going families). Do you know what the most popular song still is? Gangnam style. Nothing wrong with that. But the only lyric the children hear is "Hey, sexy lady". And that's what they sing, over and over and over. When any of the children dance - but particularly the boys - there is much action in the groin region, thrusting of hips and whatnot. Many of these kids are watching movies they shouldn't be watching, and playing Xbox games they shouldn't be playing. There is no empirical data, but I know what I see every day. And it worries me.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    But the only lyric the children hear is "Hey, sexy lady". And that's what they sing, over and over and over.

    Which is the whole joke about Gangnam style. The song isn't even in English, they're picking out the line from the generic rap song, and mocking the sexualization. I still crack up at the scene where he's getting bukkaked by a massive cream fan.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Jackie Clark,

    I agree Jackie, the banal sensationalised sexualisation and a major thrust of the western media/ cultural sex obsession, is insidiously designed to appeal to the mental faculties of the preteen and those possessed as such.

    ETA, that example works perfectly Ben ;)

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to "chris",

    These kids are three and four year olds - they already have body shame (somewhat of a culturally based thing), but I've also come across a few over the last few years having pashing sessions in hidey places. Kids will experiment, I' m not worried about that. But these aren't kids, any of them, who come from homes where this stuff is explained, or discussed openly.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Jackie Clark,

    It definitely seems like a case of being caught somewhere between a rock and a hard place Jackie. Here in China, sex doesn’t officially exist, ever, except on the net. As such, kids are a lot more low key. Unfortunately sex will seldom be discussed within families either, but a key difference is the MSM certainly aren’t giving overtly sexualised media top billing. That’s not such a bad thing IMHO. There’s a time and a place. Where these roads lead is anybody’s guess.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    You are right to be concerned Jackie. Parents like myself who do not allow their children open access to MSM culture until they have the tools to handle it and make informed choices are now considered strange.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2898 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to BenWilson,

    Emma, Emma, wherefore art thou?

    But y'all know what I'm going to say, right?

    "Sexualisation" of girls is a concept that buys into the idea that girls are not naturally sexual. Which is a lie. That paradigm is the same reason this debate always ignores the sexuality of boys: because all boys are total horndogs, all the time. Which is a lie.

    Censorship is part of the problem, not the solution. Censorship stops sex from becoming normalised, when it's normal. The solution is education - comprehensive education that starts in kindergarten - and positive portrayals of the full diversity of sexuality.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Emma Hart,

    I agree totally with you. I am, in fact, embarking on helping one of my old students on her thesis, which is about this very subject. I'm not about censorship - I'm about what's appropriate messages for little kids to be hearing, and open discussion around that, and what they are seeing. However, in the community I teach in? Cup of cold sick.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Emma Hart,

    "Sexualisation" of girls is a concept that buys into the idea that girls are not naturally sexual. Which is a lie.

    I think it also cleverly packs in an idea that something has inherently changed, despite the fact that it's only recently in human history that people haven't been "sexualized" from a young age. Isn't the art of the ancient world jam packed with nudes? Didn't girls get married off at very young ages? Isn't sex something that's been on the mind of the human species for as long as they've had minds? Isn't some of the most ancient prehistoric art depictions of women devoid of much beyond their sexual features? Plato's Symposium contains a lengthy piece in which one of the party goers describes the most perfect kind of love being that between man and beautiful young boy. A good friend of mine took a photo from an ancient Indian temple he visited that he used as his phone background, depicting a woman giving a horse a blowjob.

    I really don't think this is the first moment in human history that we've been exposed to smut. Practically every discussion I had with other boys from the age of 11 through to 14 was on every aspect of sexuality we could imagine. I bet this wasn't much different 20,000 years ago, with the main difference being that we'd probably be fathers a few years later.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to BenWilson,

    Isn't the art of the ancient world jam packed with nudes?

    Indeed. I wrote this a couple of years ago, and the rest of the posts in the Porn Tuesday series, partly because I was so tired of hearing that sexually-explicit material was something new.

    There’s a tendency, when we’re not thinking about it very hard, to assume that our history has been a constant drift towards increasing liberalism, but this simply isn’t true. The older state is “sex in the public square”, absolutely in front of the children. Censorship was imposed on that, and we’ve now come to a point where, instead of justifying why something should be banned or restricted, the debate is entirely focused on justifying why things should be allowed to be seen.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    I'm keen to see what you make of the show. I thought our two panelists were pretty high signal-to-noise at the recording tonight.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I'm keen to see what you make of the show. I thought our two panelists were pretty high signal-to-noise at the recording tonight.

    Heh, you might have to wait a couple of days given what else is on tomorrow night.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to BenWilson,

    <q> really don’t think this is the first moment in human history that we’ve been exposed to smut. Practically every discussion I had with other boys from the age of 11 through to 14 was on every aspect of sexuality we could imagine. I bet this wasn’t much different 20,000 years ago, with the main difference being that we’d probably be fathers a few years later.

    ***Well. actually we can go back *at least* 160.000yrs ago when you have vuvlae/penises & interaction depicted in cave art & sculptures-

    I mean – SERIOUSLY MATES!

    What do you actually understand about human reproduction???

    Annnnd- the need to record the occaision?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Islander,

    Which I understand but seriously dont know about…

    O! (forlorn) asexuals of the world! Dont mate! Just unite!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Hebe,

    Parents like myself

    I have a lot of respect for that approach Hebe. In my school homeroom, conversation was all about WWF and the NRL interrupted by impromptu wrestles.. it makes me kind of wish I'd had Ben's sexy friends, but that would probably have involved going to Catholic school so.

    Anyway there was this one kid whose dad was our English teacher, they didn't have a TV, which was as you say 'strange' and to be frank, the kid didn't socialize too well, Dan was approachable but also very very quiet, understandable considering the social currency of the day. Obviously he wasn't one of the it kids.

    By the time the last day of school rolled round most of us had vague ideas of who we were and what we wanted to do and he was by then almost an afterthought in the social equation, except that on that day Dan Goldsworthy bowled up juggling on a unicycle. Masterfully. It was mind blowing; so hoorays for the MSM and its very sexy sporty conditioning thing but life seems to have a whole lot more to offer. I've never owned a TV as a result. Was that rantish? Just wanted to share, apologies for the length. I mean there's sex, there's sexy and then there's some guy frotting a lamp post and a billion eyes fixated on him.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Heh, you might have to wait a couple of days given what else is on tomorrow night.

    Of course.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Emma Hart,

    "Sexualisation" of girls is a concept that buys into the idea that girls are not naturally sexual. Which is a lie. That paradigm is the same reason this debate always ignores the sexuality of boys: because all boys are total horndogs, all the time. Which is a lie.

    OTOH, I think there is an argument to be made about *objectification* of young people - I'm less worried about the affect on children of, to take some entries in this debate, underwear with tacky objectifying sexual messages on it and magazine stories discussing the sexual appeal of eight-year-olds. I'm worried about what it says to people old enough to pay attention - because those things are still part of a culture that positions women as sex and men as always wanting sex. (C.f. the last episode of GoT's Naked Lady Quota scene.)

    And we’ve also seen young lives blighted when kids are charged as child pornographers for taking and keeping photographs of each other.

    That would be bad enough, but teenagers in the US have been charged for taking photographs of themselves which then got distributed by others.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Indeed. I wrote this a couple of years ago, and the rest of the posts in the Porn Tuesday series, partly because I was so tired of hearing that sexually-explicit material was something new.

    As Sacha notes, the Lizi Patch column is worth reading. It’s impossible not to feel sad at an 11 year-old boy losing his innocence – and knowing it – because he was pressured into watching a sexually violent and potentially abusive scene by his peers. I don’t think that’s irrational. So what do we do? Or, rather, what do we say?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    That would be bad enough, but teenagers in the US have been charged for taking photographs of themselves which then got distributed by others.

    Which brings us to textbook examples of what not to do.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    I’m about what’s appropriate messages for little kids to be hearing, and open discussion around that, and what they are seeing.

    Sure – and I’m sorry to be that guy but where the fuck are the parents in all this? I’ve had the Big Gay Uncle discussion with the younglings that there are large swathes of the DVD collection that are “don’t even bother asking” out of bounds. Boundaries and Consequences really aren’t bad things.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    As Sacha notes, the Lizi Patch column is worth reading. It’s impossible not to feel sad at an 11 year-old boy losing his innocence – and knowing it – because he was pressured into watching a sexually violent and potentially abusive scene by his peers. I don’t think that’s irrational. So what do we do? Or, rather, what do we say?

    I read it, and yeah, I agree. I thought the parent handled it really well. There was a pre-existing relationship where the child was prepared to (eventually) talk about what had happened. I don't really think you can do better than that. (One reservation I have is that the nature of the content is never really described. It could have been the most stomach-churning of what's out there. Or it could have been uncontextualised consensual M/f BDSM. I can't tell from the column.)

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

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