Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Media Take: The selling of the campaign

136 Responses

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  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to linger,

    Pro-tip for you Mr Linger: if you're going to refute a claim, "Not true!" doesn't qualify as an argument.

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    Cowards troll from anonymity, Kumara Republic.

    Stupid cowards however can be relied upon to be stupid cowards, and therefore unlikely to heed such advice.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2213 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Ad hominem doesn't qualify as an argument either, Tom — but at least you have the balls to put your name to your unsubstantiated slur.

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    Because it’s all true.

    You are pathologically wrong. Carry on like this and you'll resemble a Trumpian.
    Maybe you secretly desire that.
    Using a real name doesnt mean you arent a troll, as you generously demonstrate.
    Unintentionally for sure.
    Tho the bridge you have chosen for your hidey-hole , is good governance, and anyone who dares cross it is fair game.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1888 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to andin,

    Andin, *how* is the ad wrong? Nobody seems keen on refuting it. Like an adult.

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    That would be the claim you made without mentioning your own connection to the subject and without providing any other source? ("TV3 says" is not a source: who did that analysis?). Lawyer Steven Price, who helped prepare the case against the campaign, has listed his points of disagreement very explicitly and was linked to in Russell's post; if you have detailed contrary evidence addressing those specific points, you're welcome to share it. But if you're just looking to exchange abuse, I'm not interested.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1901 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Glenn's doing us all a service, really. You expect this kind of argument ("blind Labour voters") on Kiwiblog and other homes of the frothing Right, but National have played deniability for years. Separating their nasty followers on the fringe from the nice sensible Nats who we can totally trust.

    Now we've been shown it comes from the very heart of their campaign. Thanks for letting us know.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1326 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to linger,

    Five of the six claims were deemed “FAIR” on the 6pm TV3 News (15/09/17). The fourth claim, Income Tax, was deemed “FAKE.” They’re wrong. With the exception of Labour, all parties voted to pass the law to lower income tax last May. It’s law. Labour’s plan to “reverse” the tax cut will require them to introduce and pass a bill to *raise* Income Tax. Details of Labour’s taxes may be found on their website [euphemistic quotes mine]:
    > Alcohol, *Petrol* and Tobacco “Levies”
    > Clean Water “Royalty”
    > Restore the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS)
    > Commission a Tax Working Group to “review” a whole pile of new taxes including CGT and Land Tax, which everyone knows is unlikely to come back with a “Meh, don’t need it.”

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    You keep referring to a solitary TV3 soundbite as if it were the last word, the tablets of stone, the verdict that shall not be appealed. Such desperation is almost touching.

    The fact that you have to ignore all other commentary in all other media (including that cited on this thread) speaks volumes.

    Still, if you want to use TV3 as the Incontrovertible Umpire Henceforth, we can play that game too. Mr Gower would love that ... he did explicitly call you and your party liars, after all.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1326 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to simon g,

    If you read past the first sentence, Simon, you'll see the argument corroborated in detail, with references cut and pasted from Labour's own website.

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • william blake,

    You have made me look beyond the social Darwinism of the ponytail pulling ad 'Glenn Jameson', I can now see what the five legged race was meant to mean. It is an analogy for how minor parties are knobbled by coalition with a larger one as has been clearly illustrated by the right wing becoming Nigel no mates; fair warning there. As for the fit and healthy leaving the lame behind, as they say in blighty, jog on.

    Since Mar 2010 • 380 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to william blake,

    You’re welcome, William. Just to clarify: no ponytails were abused in the making of the commercial, the five-legged racers aren’t lame in the disabled sense, rather hobbled by their inherent enmity toward one another, and “Nigel no mates” outnumbers the Laboureens by six seats and need fewer friends than Jacindy to get over the line. :)

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Attachment

    Re National attack ad and its creator

    (SG) The aim was to mislead, and it worked.
    (GJ) It certainly did

    Nice work if you can get it.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156810921829569&set=a.148050389568.132340.794439568&type=3&theater
    I'm sure it was all just received information and used in good faith - much like mr Jameson's passing on of anti Hillary Clinton memes on his facebook page during the US election - that "The Hillary Clinton campaign was systematically overcharging poorest donors".
    https://www.facebook.com/glenn.jameson/posts/10155361011589569
    Please note that Snopes has found that to be unproved - refuted if you will.
    http://www.snopes.com/clinton-campaign-overcharging-donors/
    so with your enthusiasm for corroboration I assume that as you indicated it was a suspect source (but were willing to pass it on) - you will be letting all your facebook friends like Lindsay Perigo and John Ansell know that you may have put them wrong.
    I note your love of Ayn Rand (Али́са Зино́вьевна Розенба́ум) books and a movie about her, as well as really liking Tucker Carlson's Fox TV show. - that is a diet that definitely needs Greens!

    I also note you created the caring "Don't use my money to save Radio NZ - use your own' facebook page back in 2010
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/328427819247/about/

    and I note your 'call to arms:

    till this is over the line. It's not a done deal, no matter how large our moral victory. In war, mercenaries have a price, and civic justice has no currency.
    However, we'll take all the applause for our Tax Arrows attack ad!

    Edward Bernays (and Ayn Rand) would be proud....

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7902 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Epic trolling, Dalziel. If you were to complete my quote you'd see that it was in response to the latter half of the first quote. A lie by omission. The rest appears to be another, more exhaustive Logical Fallacy.

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Russell, do any of your followers know how to the play the ball instead of the man?

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • mpledger, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    Glenn Jameson said
    Russell, do any of your followers know how to the play the ball instead of the man?

    ~
    Do you?

    'cause you were pretty vile towards the first women you came up against.

    You set the tone yourself.

    Since Oct 2012 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to mpledger,

    Mr Pledger, not the first woman I've faced in an election, and I assure you I attacked Helen's policies just as hard as Jacinda's, and neither woman themselves.

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • mpledger, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    So, the post about hysterical thinking just slipped your mind.

    And my correct appellation is Dr in the professional setting and Mrs in the public .

    But then I am not surprised you got it wrong.

    Since Oct 2012 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to mpledger,

    hysterical

    Nice to see that I'm not the only one wondering what's happened to PAS's usually vigilant moderators. As the late Kim Fowley used to say, small boys got no part in this hustle.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    FYI, he has some history with the now-defunct Libertarianz.

    1996 Libertarianz party list

    http://www.solopassion.com/node/5287 (I read that site so you don't have to)

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5428 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Please don't ban him. Keep providing the rope. It's going to be a slow news week in politics, so it might well interest some in the media to know that National's lying (sorry, masterful) ad campaign came from the furthest reaches of far right.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1326 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to simon g,

    Please don't ban him. Keep providing the rope. It's going to be a slow news week in politics, so it might well interest some in the media to know that National's lying (sorry, masterful) ad campaign came from the furthest reaches of far right.

    This. Here's some more fun for him.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5428 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    classic.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Glenn Jameson,

    *how* is the ad wrong? Nobody seems keen on refuting it

    You just want someone to prove your ad wrong? Within your confines ... sheeez We've been playing that game for centuries.
    If you are in the advertising business you should know its all in the presentation. And well... about that. Do you think your ads were a crucial factor in the election or are you coat tailing off a Nats win?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1888 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Jameson, in reply to mpledger,

    And my correct appellation is Dr in the professional setting and Mrs in the public . But then I am not surprised you got it wrong.

    Dr Mpledger, you'd do well to check your own hysterical umbrage. Expecting someone to deduce you're a woman without displaying a first name, with an avatar of Mr Potatohead, is most unreasonable.

    Perhaps you should reread what Hillary wrote. She interpreted the team in the five-legged race as "disabled" and the half-ethnic running team in blue running past them as "an obvious representation of Social Darwinism." Calling that hysterical umbrage isn't ad hominem; it's prima facie! :)

    Since Sep 2017 • 18 posts Report Reply

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