Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Lucinda Williams made me cry

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  • Sacha,

    Stuart, that's awesome. So there can be such a thing as too much audience appreciation.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I reccomend dance music, Mark. Considerate crowds in my experience. Mind you that would apply to classical, jazz and many other forms too.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    Conflict between two self-centred motivations is guaranteed in some situations. Nothing wrong with the motivations, though I agree the subsequent behaviour can be problematic.

    Oh, I didn't realise it was self-centred to buy a seat to a show and then expect to sit in it. Silly me.

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    See, that's what selfish pricks always resort to, because you want it your way and no other. "If you don't want to rock out LIKE ME, you shouldn't be here". Wow.

    No, I'm saying: if you expect to buy a ticket to an unseated area at a rock concert and then require everyone else there to sit on the ground because that's what you want to do, then perhaps you'd be happier at Christmas in the Park.

    What's absurd, Russell, is that you focus on (your perspective of) one concert and miss my point that self-centered behaviour is the problem here, not venue design or disability.

    Mark, I don't think standing up in an unseated area at a rock concert is "self-centred behaviour". Especially not when several tens of thousands of other people are doing the same thing.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    While I agree that people have been known to dance at gigs, my point is that their desire to do so is untempered by any recognition of the effect their behaviour has on people around them. Hence, "selfish pricks"

    We were extremely considerate at Lucinda: we even waited for a break between songs to shuffle over to the side of the hall so that no one would be inconvenienced by our desire to get off our arses. But that's not the same thing as thinking you can buy a GA ticket and have everyone else do your bidding.

    And I did think that having seating all the way to the front had an averse impact on the gig. So, quite clearly, did Lucinda herself.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Simply thought..... Dancing in the aisles should be allowed, with the disabled in a considered so seated area and front row for the deaf. Upstairs if you have to sit. Mosh pit if you want to jump up an' down like Johnny Rotten.further back to sway a littl' . SORTED!

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    SORTED!

    Exactly.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Plus... booked special seats for Mark and Roger jus' so they wont accuse me of being a prick:)
    . I'll get my anorak

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    We were extremely considerate at Lucinda: we even waited for a break between songs to shuffle over to the side of the hall so that no one would be inconvenienced by our desire to get off our arses. But that's not the same thing as thinking you can buy a GA ticket and have everyone else do your bidding.

    You're determined to make this all about you, aren't you? Newsflash, Russell, it's not.

    I'm very pleased you were considerate at that concert. Great. Others weren't. Not great.

    Dancing in the aisles should be allowed

    [sigh] there are valid safety reasons for not permitting this.

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    But that's not the same thing as thinking you can buy a GA ticket and have everyone else do your bidding.

    But you're okay with expecting others to do your bidding by not objecting to your behaviour? Interesting differentiation. Maybe it is all about you...

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    SORTED!

    Exactly.

    Well, not for everything. It's okay to sell front-and-centre seats for Simon & Garfunkel for top dollar. I doubt there'll be a clash of expectations at that show ;-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Maybe it is all about you...

    Mark you should have been there. RB was talking about GA to the Stones. No seats. Standing room. To have someone expect to set up picnic and expect private space was foolish.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I predict Zimmer frames at ten paces at th Garfunkel gig.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    Mark you should have been there

    Not really the point. I'm well aware of what Russell is talking about, but he seems to unable to grasp what I'm talking about.

    And GA doesn't excuse inconsiderate behaviour from either side.

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    The" been there" was so you could have imagined how impossible the situ was up the back.The moment is not always sooo considered but general consideration should also allow for those moments to be allowed if you get my drift and if not, remember I am wearing an anorak :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    I'll see your anorak and spot you several trains ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Rachel Prosser,

    Think of the shorties, people. Any flat-floored show means that I almost *never* get a decent view of a concert I've paid for.

    Seconded. I'm just not a mosh-pit type (other people's armpits lack appeal)

    That's probably one reason I seldom go to big concerts. But the other reason is that it hurts my ears - literally. It's not the music - it's the ear-splitting volume. Even small jazz gigs bother me.

    I have a theory that almost all sound-mixing people have gone to so many concerts with too high a volume that they're partially deaf, and sharing it with the rest of us.

    Or, in the case of the Jade/AMI/Lancaster Stadium ground announcer, set the levels of the sound for a full stadium, when mostly it's 2/3 empty.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2008 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    And GA doesn't excuse inconsiderate behaviour from either side.

    Depends. I understand the points you're making Mark, but I think at a GA event such as the Stones, I don't think it reasonable to expect people to remain seated throughout the evening. Music and dancing are pretty closely correlated (which is not to say all must dance to enjoy).

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Pete,

    Up in the circle at the Welly gig I jumped straight out of my alotted seat to the wall directly behind it - I got in no-one's way and my honey joined me too. MUCH better and while there may've been plenty of fellow wrinklies it was a nice change from the last gig* before that to not have ya water bottles confiscated..
    *Iron Maiden

    Since Apr 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • Stuart Coats,

    It's okay to sell front-and-centre seats for Simon & Garfunkel for top dollar. I doubt there'll be a clash of expectations at that show ;-)

    Really? Because I totally expect that there will be some awkward frugging if they play Cecilia or even some wild interperative dance to Bridge Over Troubled Water

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 192 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    But the other reason is that it hurts my ears - literally. It's not the music - it's the ear-splitting volume. Even small jazz gigs bother me.

    I have a theory that almost all sound-mixing people have gone to so many concerts with too high a volume that they're partially deaf, and sharing it with the rest of us.

    Agreed. The only way I can tolerate the Big Day Out is with earplugs, preferably acquired before I even arrive so that I can put them in as soon as I get through the gate. It really concerns me that so many of my young (18-20) friends happily spend the whole day there, finish with ringing ears, and aren't worried about the fact that, in some cases, they're already starting to display signs of deafness. Of course, that particular young lady keeps her car stereo at a high volume, too, which doubtless compounds the issue.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Roger,

    See, I knew that you guys could do it if you tried!!

    I once did a Tina Turner concert in Kuala Lumpur... no dancing; the ushers had guns... not that I would advocate that as a solution.

    Russell; yes, in GA all is good, but perhaps with a little more consideration than some exhibit would be nice, or is 'nice' something that we can no longer do? However in a venue with an abundance of flat floor dancing space it really does get my goat when they still insist on standing up and blocking the concert in the seated areas - make your choices people, I did.

    No, I'm saying: if you expect to buy a ticket to an unseated area at a rock concert and then require everyone else there to sit on the ground because that's what you want to do, then perhaps you'd be happier at Christmas in the Park.

    But what about the counterfactual to that... I think Christmas in the Park is crap and would not go if I was paid, but I do enjoy rock concerts. Why should others expect to buy a ticket to the affordable area at a rock concert and then require everyone else there to stand just because that's what they want to do? Right, it is all about them.

    What is the choice, I could pay a squillion bucks for a seat near the stage and still have some idiot stand and block my view. Better to waste $120 on the hill than $390 down the front, for the same result. So in the Western Springs example I might go early and find the steepest part of the hill that no one could possibly safely dance on... wrong! I am supposed to only go to Christmas in the Park.

    Or The Who... someone dancing in the stand, blocking peoples view, pissing people off, abusing the staff, then drunkenly tripping and going base over apex down two rows of seats... really funny and an "I told you so" moment until you guiltily realise that they have actually really hurt themselves... but that still does not deter their friends... more agro ensues.

    BDO has a range of 'viewing' and participating options and so this is not in my experience a problematic place, and it is big enough. Vector should not be a problem, setting aside promoters stupidity or greed.

    Deep Purple at North Shore event Centre with all seating and no dance area... just stupid, and asking for conflict.

    However people should remember that people do have differing interests and needs and while promoters do usually cater for 'visibly' disabled people - like the provision of disabled car parks, this only caters for a fraction of people who may have problems or needs that differ from the GA public (we have covered ‘short’ here, but how about pregnant, temporarily injured, minor mobility problems, or terminally rhythm handicapped, etc, etc, etc – none of these people qualify for a mobility permit or any sort of special treatment – and so tend to be excluded in one way or another).

    Hamilton • Since Jun 2007 • 179 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    someone dancing in the stand, blocking peoples view, pissing people off, abusing the staff, then drunkenly tripping and going base over apex down two rows of seats...

    ...is not what Russell was talking about. He's just asking why, at a rock concert in a GA area where you could reasonably expect people to be dancing, is it assumed by you and Mark that if some people sit down, everyone else should feel obliged to sit down? I think that's a kind of selfishness too. It varies from context to context, but unreasonable expectations on other people's behaviour in public situations is also self centered.

    But you're okay with expecting others to do your bidding by not objecting to your behaviour? Interesting differentiation.

    Not in all cases. I thought Russell's been clear all along as to the type of situation he means. The differentiation he makes - that you don't seem to - is that it is not always the person engaging in a proactive activity (standing up, dancing) who is selfish. As I said, in some cases, complaining about other people's reasonable behaviour is what is selfish.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • John Valentine,

    I just hope that nobody has been texting at any of these concerts.

    North Canterbury • Since Nov 2006 • 6 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    First thing Mick Jagger said was for everyone to please turn off their cell phones now.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

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