I imagine that the people who are supporting Jones have the lines already prepared for when he loses: "left-wing party activists out of touch with ordinary keewees". Just don't give them any credence.
My problem with Shane Jones isn't his pr0n viewing, though it would be nicer if he wouldn't use our money to do it (top tip for politicians - if you're offered a credit card, refuse it. File your expenses after the fact and have a trusted assistant check them through thoroughly for appropriateness).
Or, you know, actually use your fucking brains. It's hardly rocket science that PPV hotel porn or alcohol at party conference dinners isn't an appropriate use of a ministerial credit card. One of those not-rocket-science distinctions plenty of folks in the civil service and private sector can draw without any angst whatsoever.
Or, you know, actually use your fucking brains.
Yes, this is my main criticism of Jones. I don't want someone so damned careless to be the PM.
I have heard that the porn thing was Jones covering for a staff member and, alternatively, for his son
His hotel room, his credit card, his responsibility.
Oh wait, I see Craig said the same thing more colourfully..
Oh wait, I see Craig said the same thing more colourfully..
As ever :-)
I don't want someone so damned careless to be the PM.
You don't believe in redemption?
Having said that I'm struggling to think of any examples of where political careers have risen above such doofusy behaviour.
It’s hardly rocket science that PPV hotel porn or alcohol at party conference dinners isn’t an appropriate use of a ministerial credit card.
Hasn't he heard of a thing called the Internet? It would have been much more discreet.
Is it just me, or does it strike anyone as weird that middle-class intellectuals (academics and teachers and public servants and socially liberal professionals) aren’t considered part of Labour’s core voting base? Surely they/we have been for generations.
I have strong memories of my parents taking me to Labour Party events in the 70s and 80s, in between anti-Tour and nuclear disarmament rallies. A wide spectrum of social justice, environmental and yes, “identity politics” issues have been as much a part of that movement as economic and equality issues. When did we start turning the clock back to the days of cloth-capped blokey-bloke wharfies and miners and catering to some vision of their supposed salt-of-the-earth misogyny and homophobia as an essentialised emblem of “true Labour” voters?
The sneering tone you adopt in discussing those you clearly consider to be your social inferiors perhaps answers your question better than I ever could. It is called the Labour party for a reason, one of those reasons being organised Labour makes Jack as good as all his masters - including the condescending middle-class intellectual ones.
You don’t believe in redemption?
I do think people can redeem themselves, so that they needn't be pariahs forever. But getting the top job is a whole 'nother thing.
catering to some vision of their supposed salt-of-the-earth misogyny and homophobia as an essentialised emblem of “true Labour” voters?
Extra 'out of touch' points, because you know who actually do disproportionately vote Left? Women and gays.
I am... let's say 'not a fan' of either Greer or the Women's Weekly.
Ageing neoliberal is a good description of Jones. Add sexist. With poor judgement. I have yet to find any women (including Maori women) who support him as leader. I find it fascinating how many media commentators think it is their role to annoint someone as LP leader – so they look to someone who most reflects their own world view and values.
At first I kinda liked the relaxed blokey dokey thing that Jones does , it was refreshing but I suspect its an act.
When he showed his wares, I'm with Cecelia on this , I was shocked at his arrogance to woman and especially his total disregard for Greens policies.
His mana withered away at that point.
John Tamihere's theory - sorry no link was on the wireless - is he knows that he won't stand a show at the top job but is deliberately positioning himself for a very senior role , promising to bring new voters along with him.
As for Garner and Espiner's overt campaigning on Jone's behalf , that was weird but Garner has strong Nga Puhi connections as does Jones, Nga Puhi have come out behind him strongly.
Did you notice Hone Harawira sitting quietly on the side of the whare hui as Jones was surfing on his own korero?
Who pays for porn? Seriously? If you don't know how to use the internet then I don't want you as my Prime Minister.
I agree, Hilary. It seems like the media way overstepping its role.
I'd stop short of using 'ageing' as a term of disapproval though ;-)
We're all ageing!
Jones’ use of a ministerial credit card to pay for porn in 2010.
Even if we were to grant him that one (in a fit of wild generosity, perhaps)
I honestly don't give a rats arse about his watching of pron. What I care about was his mind-numbing stupidity to do it on a work credit card which demostrated such a lack of basic common sense that I wouldn't want him anywhere near any kind of responsibility.
Who pays for porn?
To be fair, in a hotel room in 2010 the internet might not have been the cheapest option.
weird that middle-class intellectuals (academics and teachers and public servants and socially liberal professionals) aren’t considered part of Labour’s core voting base?
It's sure as hell certain National won't represent my values or interests.
or alcohol at party conference dinners
I don't really get the alcohol thing. When I travel for work, I always charge the entire cost of a meal, including any booze. I try not to go overboard, obviously.
Not sure why we expect politicians to subsidise their work requirements (schmoozing) with their personal cash.
I don't remember all the details at the time, but do remember feeling a little sorry for these people who are expected to serve SIGNIFICANT time away from their families and the public thought it outrageous for them to be bought a drink.
Anyway, not trying to threadjack, so moving on...
I find it fascinating how many media commentators think it is their role to anoint someone as LP leader
...and also bewildering, and pointless, is Key and other National ministers' near constant 'helpful strategy advice' to Labour...
Tell us Tom, what form of horny-handed working class toil do you engage in? I'm just wondering whether they have Internet access down by the coal seam nowadays for you to post on in your breaks, or do you climb all the way to the surface to regale us with true working class opinions?
I don’t really get the alcohol thing. When I travel for work, I always charge the entire cost of a meal, including any booze. I try not to go overboard, obviously.
Certain National Ministers were drinking a bottle of whiskey a night and charging it to the taxpayer. Others were treating themselves to $400 bottles of wine. Neither of which would get signed off by many private companies.
I may have to give this politician thing a go. If you can operate as a Minister after downing a bottle of whiskey the night before, how hard can it be?
Whiskey? You beltway urban liberal, you.
True working class pulled-yourself-up-by-their-bootstraps real men do methamphetamine.
(Actually no politician has admitted to meth yet, Well, not since Hitler).
I don’t remember all the details at the time, but do remember feeling a little sorry for these people who are expected to serve SIGNIFICANT time away from their families and the public thought it outrageous for them to be bought a drink.
I know what you mean. Idiot/Savant tends to fly into a rage when it emerges that a travelling minister has a wine with dinner, or entertains relevant contacts in a fairly standard fashion. For better or worse, this is how most of the world does business.
I was just relfecting some earlier ageist language upthread