Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: High Noon

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  • Simon Grigg,

    The problem I have with it is that it will never be enough for the industry that thinks it is missing out on revenue, and that it doesn't fix the principle problem of the broken business model that will continue to see a downturn in sales.

    Bob Lefsetz is unusally good today (it's email only as I type, not yet on his site but there is much more, including something I agree with, that iTunes is a dead end, although we're not there yet):

    It's time to stop suing traders (stop the Pirate Bay proceedings post-haste) and recognize that the labels will be saved by the future, which is imminent.

    I used to comb Limewire and Rapidshare, adding to my collection of often unlistened to MP3s. But I've just about given up. It's just not worth the time. Not when I've got Spotify.

    Once again, everything the pundits said was going to be true is. You don't fight piracy via lawsuits, you just develop a more enticing business proposition. ISP fees? Charging for downloading? Who is going to bother to take the time to steal when you can listen to whatever you want, instantly?

    Dunno if Spotify works in NZ (here in SEA it's only a premium service to date) but it has legs as a concept, assuming, and this is a big one for much of the world, that we all have high speed broadband

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    godspeed, young man, and may flights of angels sing thee to the game

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    suck it up, cut their costs and accept that nobody is going to get rich from recorded music any more

    Not even close to true. Do you know how money you can generate simply from the performance fees on a medium sized international track? Or how much someone like Coldplay makes every minute just from radioplay?

    A lot of people are still making more money than we can even dream of from recorded music, it's just that the share of the pie that goes to the traditional record labels is increasingly diminished.

    That's what this is all about..all of it.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    What Simon said.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    Word!

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    On s92a, I just feel that as a general principle, if you have a business model that isn't working, you shouldn't be entitled to have the government change the law and crush peoples rights in order to shore that model up.

    I don't mind things changing. In fact I think that's a good thing for this business model: it's old, and it'd be a better model if the artists saw more, the end product cost less, and there was a lot less inbetween the two.

    I do think that 'this brave new world' has to be careful that we don't end up with less, or not as good, culture, through this sort of idea.

    I mean there's no good business model to support a professional ballet troupe in NZ - it get subsidised. Does that mean that they should all be out on their tutus?

    Should major record labels be subsidised so that we continue to get their music? No. But we also shouldn't shoot ourselves in the foot now that we've found out we can get most of the stuff for free.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Dunno if Spotify works in NZ (here in SEA it's only a premium service to date) but it has legs as a concept, assuming, and this is a big one for much of the world, that we all have high speed broadband

    Premium only in Australia too. How's it work. The cute video's interesting but says nothing about how artists are remunerated? An end-user's agreement is avaible on the blog but I'm not going there...

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    One of the problems New Zealand has is our size - we have the same niches that other nations have and they may be proportionally the same size, but ours are very small in real numbers (and $$) and I don't see a perfect market model operating. That said, I'm no big fan of subsidising everyone to produce work either because that doesn't encourage quality, only quantity.

    It is a conundrum that I don't have the answer to. For some things, our market is global, via the internet. For others, such as the ballet, strictly local. This is the sort of thing the old QEII Arts Council used to be quite useful for (IMHO) but we don't have it any more, and the minor bodies that sprang up in its place are competing for the same funding.

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    Premium only in Australia too. How's it work.

    Here you go

    Lefstez is also up now in full

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    Two random things I want to throw into this: firstly I've learned a lot about the legislation reading this thread (and so far this year I've managed to avoid covering the issue, what with all the economic stuff and everything...) so, cheers.

    Also the heading on the thread must be why I've been humming 'Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling' all day.

    Nice tune, that. Wonder if I can download it on rapidshare.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    @Simon, cheers.

    @Rob, it was the mention of Dimmer for me ... my entirely legal copies of the two albums (there's only two right) have kept me happy the last few hours... (everytime I hear "you want to believe your own scrapbook" I think of John Key, that's ok yeah?)

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Re: Spotify

    Doesn't Last.fm already do a lot of that but without the cost or the adverts? Pretty sure you can click on artists, albums or get it do you up your own 'sounds like' playlist.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 949 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Good point Simon.

    s/recorded music/retail sales of recorded music

    and also with specific reference to local artists. If you're Coldplay or whoever then even a much reduced income from CDs is still a lot of money.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I think that in terms of government helping, there are things they could do that aren't clubbing people with a big stick.

    Maybe $10 a month on broadband that gives you indemnity to share anything you can find, with the revenue distributed in an NZ on Air type fashion.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    Doesn't Last.fm already do a lot of that but without the cost or the adverts? Pretty sure you can click on artists, albums or get it do you up your own 'sounds like' playlist

    The tech buffs will be able to help but I think this is quite a leap forward in terms of caching and delivery.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Jake Pollock,

    (there's only two right)

    I can't tell if that's a serious question or if You've Got To Hear The Music has been disowned a la Blow.

    And streaming services are all very well, but whatever happened to iTunes bundling unlimited downloads?

    Raumati South • Since Nov 2006 • 489 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    This has been a truly fascinating discussion, thanks to all.

    Indeed. And thanks for moving it past the earlier unpleasantness, which I found quite upsetting, possibly because I'm the wall with fatigue and stress at the moment.

    Fortunately, my hotel room has a GIANT bathtub, and I'm filling it. The planet can jolly well fry ...

    Also: Bruce Sterling is a mind of wonder.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Cubey,

    Yes, Bruce Sterling is great. The 40-minute interview Kim Hill did with him and Jasmina (who's equally fascinating) earlier this week plays tomorrow after 9am... and we have Andrew Dubber between 10-11am playing some tunes and talking music industry... some of the above will no doubt rear its head... nice Great Blend tie in but purely coincidental. Ruseel, you've WELL earned that bath. OK, fingers crossed for Carnival sunshine tomorrow...

    Wellington • Since May 2008 • 66 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Yes, Bruce Sterling is great.

    And as epigrammatic as you like. I've just tweeted 17 separate killer lines from his speech.

    What kind of fool am I?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    because I'm the wall with fatigue and stress at the moment.

    I hope it passes, RB, soon.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    What kind of fool am I?

    A twit , prehaps?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    What, Leo Laporte was there as wel???

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    We were lucky enough to get Peter Jenner on Media7 last year. He's a major proponent of what he calls the "music access charge".

    And?

    They did a similar thing a few years back when RIANZ touted the number of blank CDs being sold in NZ every day as lost sales.

    Well, that was just stupid, as a concept.
    We already have "surcharges" on Pubs, clubs, radio stations, cafe's. restaurants etc. I could go on. If you want to listen to music we have the technology for you to listen to all kinds of stuff. For instance. At this point in time I am listening to Little Axe - Champagne & Grits
    . A band (or whatever) that I would never have heard of if it were not for a friend being of the criminal fraternity and giving me a "stolen" copy. it would have been most unlikely for me to have heard it on the radio, TV or even in a pub, club or restaurant. So the ILLEGAL practice has given the artist an outlet, a hearing. It is time for a change on copyright. Section 92A is bot a solution, it is a problem. In my opinion the recording industry (etc) has to embrace the "new" method of distribution and build a sustainable business model or go the way of the Dinosaurs.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Ha Ha. I said bot. I meant not.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    And "bot" is exactly how they will find most of the alleged "infringers"..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

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