Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Haphazardly to war

154 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 7 Newer→ Last

  • BenWilson,

    Seems like a strange final term vanity project of Key's. He'll be able to go to a war zone dressed in fatigues and be the genuine head of a really small army. Nobody will be able to call him the "guy who never really did anything much when he was in power" when he took the nation to war.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I can’t honestly call myself a pacifist. If someone attacks me, I’m going to fight back, with possibly lots of velocity. I am however, opposed to going out and attacking people. that includes really bad people like psychopathic pedophiles, or war criminals.

    We as a nation are not actualy being attacked. So, I’m in Geovanni’s camp here. Let’s think about the actual victims and use our military to try to protect them in some way.

    One thing that really pisses me of, is that our primeminister patronizes the Iraqi army by sending 16 military personal to , I paraphrase: stand them to man up to those scumbag war criminals.Garth Mcvickar from the sensible sentencing needs to be briefed on all this vigilantly action.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • David R, in reply to Tinakori,

    Funny you should bring Iran up, as pragmatically, the US performing a 180 and cosying up to them and getting them actively involved in stabilising the region is the least bad of all the terrible options. As someone already mentioned, there are no clean hands here. Assuming we don't see Iran sponsored Shiite death squads again, that could work.

    Of course, once this happens Saudi Arabia goes ballistic and Israel starts threatening to nuke everyone.

    Foreign policy is hard :(

    AKL • Since Sep 2008 • 21 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    speaking frankly...

    an apostate

    I think an 'apostdate' is one of the three days per week that mail will be delivered... anything else would be a miracle!
    but it's no way to stamp out terrorism...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I meant to say, before I mangled my last comment, is that it’s embarasing to have a Primeminister who partronised the Iraqi people by making grand statements about sending a small group of New Zealand soldiers, and I paraphrase; to show the Iraqi army how to have the balls to fight ISIS. He must think that winning the rugby World Cup is more awesome than it really is.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    but won't be once they shift back into guerrilla mode

    It's unlikely that they will now that ISIS has declared the Caliphate*.

    See this excellent article which in my opinion is required reading for anyone discussing this topic.

    *needless to say, that doesn't mean that dealing with this issue makes yer extremist problem go away, just this particular hydra head.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    If I understand correctly, if somebody calls you an apostate then either they're right in which case they have to kill you, or they're wrong, in which case they are considered apostate and you have to kill them.

    Is also my understanding, based on The Atlantic article I linked to above.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford,

    Our Mad Hatter…

    embarasing to have a Primeminister who partronised the Iraqi people by making grand statements about sending a small group of New Zealand soldiers and I paraphrase; to show the Iraqi army how to have the balls to fight ISIS. He must think that winning the rugby World Cup is more awesome than it really is.

    Key’s spittle flecked rant in the house was an unedifying experience …
    Which ‘hat’ does he wear when he says ‘it is the least we can do without doing nothing’ and which ‘hat’ does he wear when he is accusing everyone else of being ‘gutless’ – our very own millinery-minded millionaire – I bet he practised that ‘speech’ in front of the mirror, several times….
    He doesn’t need to attempt humour – he is a joke!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7943 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Someone with armed forces insight has pointed out to me that New Zealand will be going in with no Status of Forces Agreement with the Iraqis. And without a SOFA, you don’t know what your Rules of Engagement are.

    I gather there are a few people troubled by this.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Someone with armed forces insight has pointed out to me that New Zealand will be going in with no State of Forces Agreement with the Iraqis.

    Is that why they will go in with diplomatic passports also?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg, in reply to steven crawford,

    I meant to say, before I mangled my last comment, is that it’s embarasing to have a Primeminister who partronised the Iraqi people by making grand statements about sending a small group of New Zealand soldiers, and I paraphrase; to show the Iraqi army how to have the balls to fight ISIS. He must think that winning the rugby World Cup is more awesome than it really is.

    Yes - the imperial superiority on show is stomach turning. Lest we forget that the Iraqis on both sides here are as often as not the same people who handily defeated the US, UK and Australia a few short years back.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3283 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I guess they hope they don't meet Danny Glover:

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    I see Key is going to the cricket together on Saturday, presumably so his presence may steady the boys. John key is surely a parody of Henry Newbolt.

    There’s a breathless hush in Zealandia to-night—
    Ten to make and the match to win—
    A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
    An hour to play and the last man in.
    And it’s not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
    Or the selfish hope of a season’s fame,
    But his Prime ministers hand on his shoulder smote
    “get some guts! get some guts! and play the game!”

    The sand of the desert is sodden red,—
    Red with the wreck of a deployment that broke;—
    The Hummer’s destroyed and the SAS dead,
    And the veterans maimed from shrapnel and bomb.
    The river of death has brimmed his banks,
    And Zealandia’s far, and Honour a name,
    But the refrain of the prime minister rallies the ranks:
    “get some guts! get some guts! and play the game!”

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Meanwhile back in Syria, Assad continues to drop barrel bombs on civilians.

    It is dissapointing that this sort of behavior by the Syrian dictatorship has largely been forgotten, just becouse there is a more compelling atrocity going on simultaneously in the same place. I have wondered how the Islamic state and the Syrian government get along. But more importantly, I wonder how the five eyes nations negotiate access to drop there own bombs on the territory.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I was thinking that it was futile.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to steven crawford,

    I wonder how the five eyes nations negotiate access to drop there own bombs on the territory.

    A VFA?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    State of Forces Agreement with the Iraqis.

    Is that why they will go in with diplomatic passports also?

    Yes. Because when they kill someone without such an agreement they come under local legal jurisdiction, essentially they can and should be charged with murder and sent to trial.*

    Since we can't let that happen we then pull them out with diplomatic immunity.

    It is deceitful.

    *At least I think so, I am not an international lawyer, but that is my understanding.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to steven crawford,

    just becouse there is a more compelling atrocity going on simultaneously in the same place

    Depressing that dropping barrel bombs and gassing your own citizens doesn't make you the worst person in Syria. Ten years ago we were there, it was amazing, the people were lovely, hospitable, diverse …

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I think that bringing foreign soldiers onto your soil with diplomatic passports, essentially making them unaccounatble for their actions is a dangerous thing for anyone to do (be it Iraq or NZ)

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2620 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Just when you think our PM's arrogance is unbeatable, you read this:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/23/reported-plan-to-invade-iraq-last-year-rocks-australian-politics/

    Yet a story published Friday in the Australian newspaper claimed to show that Abbott had taken his macho behavior into the realm of geopolitical absurdity – by suggesting a unilateral Australian "invasion" of Iraq.

    There was a story I heard a long time ago that after the first coup in Fiji, Lange asked the NZDF if NZ & Aus should consider an invasion to restore democracy and was told in no uncertain terms that we would get our clocks cleaned.

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Paul Rowe,

    we would get our clocks cleaned

    That was at the time when Fiji was earning significant foreign income from Fijian army mercenaries, who apparently were very highly skilled and hard as nails. They also apparently had quite interesting private "collections" of military hardware.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • James Bremner,

    This is worth a read, the second half in particular: http://bit.ly/1KUGkUM
    Similarly to the Vox article linked to in a previous post, the article suggests that the tide has already turned on ISIS. Not surprising really, nut cases can’t seem to not overplay their hands and piss off too many people, which is what ISIS have done. And being on the wrong end of air power for an extended period of time is going to wear you down.
    It may be that ISIS will be over and done with, in Iraq anyway, sooner than expected. So NZ's involvement seems unlikely to get NZ stuck in a situation that is deteriorating.
    As for what happens in Syria, who knows how that will pan out.
    But this is just one more chapter in the violent and brutal history of the expansionist political ideology that is Islam. Most likely there will be more.

    NOLA • Since Nov 2006 • 353 posts Report Reply

  • John Holley,

    If folk want to read what it is like to train troops in Iraq get this book:

    The Snake Eaters

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 142 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Paul Rowe,

    Maybe if we tried to nut it out with their infantry.

    Stick an Anzac frigate (or even the Leanders we had then) 2km off the end of the Suva airport runway and declare a no-fly zone. That'd stuff them up and they'd have no effective response.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 7 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.