Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Floating the idea

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  • Che Tibby,

    can i register my intense dislike for "resanded beaches".

    there's no sand on them because there are no waves to carry sand to them. it's a waste of money they also operate here for Oriental Parade.

    if you don't like the idea of your non-sandy beach actually being a freaking mudflat or estuary, then... i don't know what. book in for a reality check somewhere...

    let's face facts [disclaimer: those 3 words channelled from talkback radio], a toddler doesn't care if the beach is golden brown or mud-brown. and the water beyond the resanding remains the same.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Llewellyn, in reply to recordari,

    Can confirm Gladstone Primary have a pool, and that parents can pay a partially recoverable fee each summer for a key - and the money raised from parents is used to offset costs of pool maintainance.

    There is an important point here about school pools - I haven't seen the statistics and strapped for time to find them, but I recall seeing someone from Watersafe NZ a couple of years ago draw a correlation between an increase in NZ child drowning rates and an increase in the closure of school pools.

    Mt Albert • Since Nov 2006 • 399 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Richard Llewellyn,

    i seem to recall this being discussed on NatRad a few weeks ago as well?

    a correlation between the removal of complusory swimming lessons and drownings.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Pools are _fun_.

    Are we that wedded to utilitarian rogernomics that everything must be justified by its ability to conform to rigid economic analysis and fit onto a spreadsheet? Sure, there are other reasons, and they might be important ones. But can we not, as a society, also go: the pleasure of the population is a benefit, and one worth paying (publicly) for?

    What's valued in NZ has been pretty severely limited, in deliberate ways, for a long time. We're scared of them.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • recordari, in reply to Che Tibby,

    There seems to be widely conflicted views on the pros and cons of what America calls 'Beach Nourishment'. Recall having a discussion about this from a ecosystems stand point with a Marine Ecologist, and basically it was a big no no.

    However, having benefited, like Russell, from Pt Chev's 'nourishing' effect, I'm a bit ambivalent. In terms of cost though, it is certainly akin to digging a whole and burying it. Almost literally.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Kearney,

    Sure George. I find riding an expensive Cervelo P2 road bike a very pleasurable experience. But they cost about $6K - $7K.

    I'll give you my address, you can post me a cheque. This is worth paying for.

    Thanks.

    If you don't want to pay yourself, I'm sure fellow PA readers will contribute, because, as you say, the pleasure of the population is a benefit, and one worth paying (publicly) for.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 73 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby, in reply to recordari,

    In terms of cost though, it is certainly akin to digging a whole and burying it. Almost literally

    precisely. it's not "nourishment", it's beautification. a bit like spray-painting one's grass greener.

    all that sand just washes out into your estuary, then out to sea somewhere.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Nick, I advocate state subsidies for bicycle purchase, but that's another thread. A private good with a high price tag is a categorically different thing to a public good with a reasonably low one.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    My kids' inner-city school doesn't have a pool but for two terms a year they have weekly lessons at the council pool for a pretty nominal $2 a lesson. They get a half-hour lesson in small groups and half and hour of free play. Both my boys are hugely confident in the water though, despite many years of lessons are not very strong swimmers.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Hannah,

    I find riding an expensive Cervelo P2 road bike a very pleasurable experience.

    Where? Up and down your drive?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Che Tibby,

    if you don’t like the idea of your non-sandy beach actually being a freaking mudflat or estuary, then… i don’t know what. book in for a reality check somewhere…

    let’s face facts [disclaimer: those 3 words channelled from talkback radio], a toddler doesn’t care if the beach is golden brown or mud-brown. and the water beyond the resanding remains the same.

    Nope. I'm thinking that the transformation of Pt Chev from a short, muddy beach to a long golden one where hundreds of local people can enjoy themselves at once is a Great Thing.

    The water is clearer, the beach is viable for swimming for more hours a day, there's small marine life in the shallows and it's far, far better for small children. There's still plenty of estuary left too.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Che Tibby,

    precisely. it’s not “nourishment”, it’s beautification. a bit like spray-painting one’s grass greener.

    That's an awful analogy. Coloured grass has no utility over uncoloured grass. What's happened at our local beach represents a massive increase in utility.

    all that sand just washes out into your estuary, then out to sea somewhere.

    Oddly enough, ours has been stable for three summers now. Your chances of me conceding your point are basically zero.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Paul Williams,

    Perhaps someone knows to what extent public primary schools still have pools and provide swimming lessons as part of the normal curriculum?

    From Orsman's story, though no breakdown by school level:

    School swimming pools are disappearing as trustees sacrifice the expense of water safety to meet tight budgets. Since 1999, school boards have closed 127 pools, and another 158 pools have closed due to school closures.

    It must be more work to get children to a pool that's outside school grounds, so the cost arguments must be compelling at school board level.

    The Herald's line of argument so far is the usual level playing field fantasy. Works really well for some.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Che Tibby,

    can i register my intense dislike for "resanded beaches". there's no sand on them because there are no waves to carry sand to them.

    Part of the justification (by Council engineers, naturally) for resanding the eastie beaches was protecting Tamaki Drive from erosion after the protective sand had been swept away. The Chev though is probably meant to be a mudflat, yes.

    all that sand just washes out into your estuary, then out to sea somewhere.

    Oh, you did say that. As you were.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Paul Williams,

    Usually the seawater in Auckland is too cold to swim in comfortably

    even I’d say Auckland’s actually pretty cool, at least comparatively

    Bah humbug!! (this comes to you on behalf of Mainlanders) :-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    The concept of the 1 or 2 weeks of *lessons* in primary schools as part of the curriculum is bogus. A lot of schools don't have pools anymore due to cost of maintenance and the children end up getting bused around to another pool, the time in the bus exceeds the time in the pool (our school even had a bus crash and children sent to hospital on the way to swimming lessons !) and of those that do have pools most are unheated outdoor pools unsuited to swimming lessons with teachers limited in their abilities to teach swimming properly anyway.

    To learn to swim properly cannot be achieved in 5-10 40 minute lessons a year at school.

    I'd rather see some sort of voucher system where kids are given discounted/subsidised lessons with professionals ?

    There is value in the out of water, water safety instruction and lifeguard visits given at school.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 504 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Sacha, thanks for doing what I should've and read the Orsman story directly... from my perspective, it follows then that there's a strong case for investing in swimming lessons (and public pools will likely be essential to ensure equitable participation) so that kids swim to a standard sufficient to reduce drownings. The public and economic benefit of that is clear.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Lilith __,

    Lilith, perhaps I've finally acclimatised to Sydney after 8 years... actually, I know I haven't since I regularly curse the heat in the Summer!

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    Part of the justification (by Council engineers, naturally) for resanding the eastie beaches was protecting Tamaki Drive from erosion after the protective sand had been swept away. The Chev though is probably meant to be a mudflat, yes.

    It's one kilometre of a long harbour shore, and has always had some sand and been swimmable around high tide. This has just made it much better.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    Oddly enough, ours has been stable for three summers now. Your chances of me conceding your point are basically zero

    It's disappearing before your eyes (slowly). I think I read at the time it would need to be done again in 15-20 years.

    I love the large scallop shells from Pakiri all over Pt Chev now. Imagine if you could wade out and pick up a few of those babies.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 504 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    It's disappearing before your eyes (slowly).

    As much as I love the beach's new look, that's my impression too - it's definitely dropped off a bit since the work was done. I doubt it'd make much difference to me if it became more of a mudflat again, but then I've never known it as anything else.

    Is it the resanding at Point Chev that's made a difference to the return of fish in the shallows, or is the inner harbour generally cleaner than in years past (with sewer separation work et cetera)?

    It was a bit tricky explaining to younger cousins how the scallop shells came to be there, yes... thanks to industrial plants up on the Whau, the only native shellfish at Point Chev probably have more heavy metal in their shells than actual shell.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Glenn Pearce,

    It’s disappearing before your eyes (slowly). I think I read at the time it would need to be done again in 15-20 years.

    Sounds like a decent investment to me, then. Waitangi Day last year was amazing -- they staged a local regatta and there must have been 1500 Aucklanders of all hues swimming and picnicking and enjoying themselves in the sun. Wouldn't have been possible before.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Russell Brown,

    As much as I love the beach’s new look, that’s my impression too – it’s definitely dropped off a bit since the work was done.

    Most of it in the first summer, actually. I was a bit worried it was going to slide away, but it stabilised, so I presume it was all part of the plan.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Christopher Dempsey,

    Some where around I still have my primary school* swimming certificate with all 6 coloured roundels filled in from the elementary water skills ('can put head under water/let's go of the handrail' sort of thing )to 'achieved 100 lengths of the pool.'**
    Actually, I got the first 3 immediately - but the later ones took some perserverance...

    * between years 1952 & 1959 incl.
    **Here's where the perserverance bit came in: I had 'nervous eczema' and turned out to be highly allergic to chlorine - staying in the swimming baths any longer than about 5 minutes resulted in my skin cracking open a day later - but I eventually did the 100 lengths (at some cost.)

    Mind you, we learnt to swim before we actually went to school, New Brighton beach & Moeraki mainly.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Glenn Pearce,

    To learn to swim properly cannot be achieved in 5-10 40 minute lessons a year at school.

    I’d rather see some sort of voucher system where kids are given discounted/subsidised lessons with professionals ?

    I had professional swimming lessons as a child and have always been glad of them. But I couldn't have got to them (over in New Brighton as they were) without hitching a lift with a family down the road who also went. My family either didn't have a car at the time, or it wasn't available for the after-school timeslot. Transport is a big, big problem for many families if there isn't a suitable local pool.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

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