Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Feminist as crazy old man

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  • pollywog,

    lets not forget how advanced we were in heavenly navigation while the northern tribe elites were still part of the flat earth society and now we're to be told 'by law' what our attitudes towards sexuality should be and what we can say about it ? fuck off, y'all dont have the right.

    have you not heard of our 'night dances' which were outlawed by the missionaries in favour of their position:)

    ya aint sayin nuthin slick to an oilcan...

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    lets not forget how advanced we were in heavenly navigation while the northern tribe elites were still part of the flat earth society and now we're to be told 'by law' what our attitudes towards sexuality should be and what we can say about it ? fuck off, y'all dont have the right.

    Now lets not start getting all smarty arse. "The northern tribes" where looking thru telescopes before Polynesia adopted Christianity.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    and of course there is no denigrating of those who are not like them going on here using the loudhailer of a national current affairs blog...is there ?

    If the best you can bring a debate is that sort of passive-aggressive snot, maybe you should take a break from it. Seriously.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    yeah thanx for the christianity

    i now cant tell whether my attitude towards sex is shaped more by that, by poly tradition or all that american hiphop i grew up on

    then again maybe i've just activated some aberrant gene:)

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    I'm still waiting until we just evolve past this argument to peace and tolerance without having to get into the messy details of discrimination against minorities.

    Wouldn't that just so be nice? Fluoro-blue kaftans for everyone!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    now we're to be told 'by law' what our attitudes towards sexuality should be and what we can say about it ? fuck off, y'all dont have the right.

    Jesus! The 'law' doesn't do either of those things, you twit.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    lets not forget how advanced we were in heavenly navigation while the northern tribe elites were still part of the flat earth society and now we're to be told 'by law' what our attitudes towards sexuality should be and what we can say about it ? fuck off, y'all dont have the right.

    I get that you have a hangup -- as Emma said, it's sprayed across three threads now. But perhaps you could consider taking it somewhere else, because it's really not helping.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Arguing about feminism is inherently more difficult for men.

    Me.

    how about we drop the facade and stop pretending we're nothing more than cavemen with laptops, one step above the animal world.

    Me again.

    Unfortunately, despite the fact that it is possible to become insanely educated about feminism, most men won't. But they will still have opinions on it, and could even contribute. If they don't, and can't, then their patriarchal attitudes are a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    For myself, I've been surrounded by feminists most of my life. It's so automatic it's basically religious - the idea that women are equal to men was never seriously challenged in my mind until I reached adulthood, and made a mental choice to challenge my preconceptions.

    To that end I very seldom find much of interest about feminism in the works by women on the subject. It basically always feels like they're talking about me, not to me. Men think this, men think that. It wasn't until I read "On The Subjugation of Women" by J S Mill that I first felt actually guilty about my attitudes to women. I recognized myself in what he was saying.

    Of course feminism has moved on hugely since then. But my attitude still roughly aligns with that. I've never been convinced by "affirmative action" or its other more loaded synonyms "positive discrimination" or "reverse discrimination". The way I see it, male responsibility for feminism ends at "giving woman an equal chance", and the rest is the job of women, to seize those chances, to make good on them, and the flipside of this empowerment is taking the responsibility for failure too. I think this has happened, and continues to happen. Which actually means it's the job of women to sort out the extreme feminists, to put them in their place, to decide what position to take.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Fluoro-blue kaftans for everyone!

    I'm sorry, that won't do: as a card-carrying member of the pro-tranny brigade, I was promised something by Trelise Cooper.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    lets not forget how advanced we were in heavenly navigation while the northern tribe elites were still part of the flat earth society

    He's right about that part. "Here there be dragons, etc".

    Another crucial polynesian navigation tool was advanced storytelling. Sadly it does not seem to be genetic in its transmission judging by some of the challenged expression by descendents here today.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    have you not heard of our 'night dances' which were outlawed by the missionaries in favour of their position:)

    Oh killjoy's of all strips have been doing that since forever, don't take it personal like.
    That radical psychiatry is a hoot... it takes me back...... Wilhelm Reich
    and his orgone.

    http://inventors.about.com/od/qrstartinventors/a/orgone.htm

    damn tried to link text what are those square bracket [[ and a vertical line?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    of course it's helping russell. getting people to look at themselves and what they say in a different light always helps.

    but fair enough i'm done. put the wash on rinse,repeat and recycle.

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    of course it's helping russell. getting people to look at themselves and what they say in a different light always helps.

    That would depend on your argument being thoughtful, original and sincere. In the absence of those virtues, what you're actually doing is essentially trolling.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    Another crucial polynesian navigation tool was advanced storytelling.

    and dipping your balls in the water to see which way the current was flowing.

    Sadly it does not seem to be genetic in its transmission judging by some of the challenged expression by descendents here today.

    can i claim english as a second language and distilling troof down to an easily transmissable code for an excuse ?

    oh that twat that called me a twit..yeah it does and my names not jesus:)

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Go away. I am tired of this thread being about you and so is everyone else.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    yeah it does

    No, it doesn't.

    my names not jesus:)

    I never said it was. Learn to understand punctuation.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    That would depend on your argument being thoughtful, original and sincere. In the absence of those virtues, what you're actually doing is essentially trolling.

    call it how you see it but i'm just putting an opinion out there. take it or leave it but can we all at least agree to leave the petty name calling at the door, not get all bent outta shape and agree to disagree in the absence of facts ?

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    heres another funny thing...swearing i'm totally cool with.

    invoking the lords name in vain...not so much

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I've never been convinced by "affirmative action"

    Ben, if a group has been systematically disadvantaged, the playing field does not magically become level the moment the discrimination is stopped. Some investment is needed to make up for entrenched disadvantage, and fairness suggests that can not be just the responsibility of the disadvantaged group. Nor are they often able to do so.

    Decades of discrimination in education and employment means that members of disadvantaged groups will not have the same income, networks and career prospects even when arrangements, structures and organisational behaviors are put right. That leaves them with less power and fewer resources to contribute.

    There are obviously differences between individuals and between groups - for example the position and context of GLBT people and disabled people are quite different when it comes to employment and income, but similar in stigma.

    Overall, it shortens the bootstraps those people and groups might otherwise be able to pull themselves up with. We can all lend a hand with that, including through public investment and programmes. That's what has been done over the past four decades for women, for Maori, for Pasifika peoples and other migrants.

    Not nearly finished yet, though, and the way it is approached is subject to political decisions about the balance between individual and collective responsibility.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    heres another funny thing...swearing i'm totally cool with.

    invoking the lords name in vain...not so much

    And here was me thinking you were an equal-opportunity-offense sort of poster.

    He may be your Lord, and good for you, but are you trying to force an attitude towards Jesus upon us? Through this 'loudhailer' of a blog site, even? I'm shocked sir. I thought we were all, y'know, evolving magically beyond that?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    BenWilson said:

    The way I see it, male responsibility for feminism ends at "giving woman an equal chance", and the rest is the job of women, to seize those chances, to make good on them, and the flipside of this empowerment is taking the responsibility for failure too.

    Okay, but that's a huge job, ranging from rethinking gender roles with respect to childcare, to eliminating the type of discriminiation that sees women paid less than men with equal qualifications and experience, to valuing caring work more (typically gender-aligned, 'though of course, you can always find men working in caring roles too).

    And he also says this:

    I think this has happened, and continues to happen. Which actually means it's the job of women to sort out the extreme feminists, to put them in their place, to decide what position to take.

    Hmmm... which they are doing. Plenty of feminists have roundly rejected large portions of the thinking of people like Mary Daly. She was kind of not known widely any more in feminism, and her thinking had been marginalised, to the extent that at least one major feminist blogger was unaware of her transphobia.

    But I don't see why men shouldn't participate in this, even if only to say that x, y, z, view is problematic for whatever reasons.

    I would love to stay and keep talking, but I have a critically important appointment to get my hair restored to my preferred colour...

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Okay, I'm deleting your posts now. You seem to think you're being clever and challenging, but, as has been noted in another thread, your arguments aren't provocative, or interesting, they're boring reactionary crap that we've heard before. I don't know whether you're sincere in those beliefs or not, but in the end the net effect is the same.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I would love to stay and keep talking, but I have a critically important appointment to get my hair restored to my preferred colour...

    We're with you all the way, sister.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22825 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I don't know whether you're sincere in those beliefs or not, but in the end the net effect is the same.

    Agree. Was just about to say I suspect they might be genuine if ill-informed beliefs, but given the tone of the conversation I'm also beyond caring about the motivation. Others are still saying interesting stuff, which is good.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19706 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    but that's a huge job

    It's such a huge job, in fact, that I think it requires fundamentally reorganising how our society works, at least in part. Which means that I find Ben's argument problematic. It's like he's Booker T. Washington and I'm W. E. B. Du Bois, or something. :)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

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