Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Earning Confidence

80 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 Newer→ Last

  • steven crawford,

    I thought Cunliffe kept his cool and Key looked bitter and drained.
    - but I also fell asleep before the end…

    I thought it was all cheap and tacky with the constant pressure to get to the add breaks. Then there was the stupid 75 cents to vote who has to go home.

    Can we please not view our politicians as nothing more than who's got the X factor?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford,

    ...and all that too.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I thought Cunliffe kept his cool and Key looked bitter and drained.

    Meh, might be a bit of projection going on there? I really don’t want to harsh the holiday buzz by looking at the usual suspects, but I’m sure plenty of folks are going on about Cunliffe looking desperate and shrill. Didn’t seem to me either was true.

    Saw bits and pieces, while sitting around with our hosts and the television on the background. Seems to me both Key and Cunliffe should be reasonably happy about how it turned out – nobody came up with a soundbite gaffe that will haunt them for the rest of the campaign. Key wasn’t goofy, and Cunliffe did a pretty good job of avoiding that slightly patronizing tone he can slip into to.

    That said: There were patches when they both seemed rather… vague on the details of their own policies. Really not an option, guys.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    Once again, Harold's reporting of poll results leaves a lot to be desired:

    And while a slim majority believe the saturation media coverage of the claims in Nicky Hager's book was justified, a slightly larger majority say the furore was either unjustified or that it's time to move on.

    Given the article doesn't show the questions actually asked, figuring out what this possibly means takes a bit of mental gymnastics.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    The worst of it was the dry ice . WTF? Cunliffe won. The detail he didn't have on housing would require actually being in Government. Key has bin there 6 years and he had no detail of any policy bar the deposit for middle income couples which was announced last weekend. Key used slogans.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    That said: There were patches when they both seemed rather… vague on the details of their own policies. Really not an option, guys.

    I lay the blame on both Hosking and whoever set the format with ad breaks. Hosking's inability to stop them talking over each other so much and the short time available per answer gave little incentive to dwell on specifics.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    The detail he didn’t have on housing would require actually being in Government.

    Nah, that dog’s not going to hunt. You just don’t get to have it both ways, Sofie – perhaps I’m naive, but I expect party leaders to be able to clearly articulate the details of their own policy especially when (let’s be honest) they’re hardly missing an opportunity to call the other bastards liars who couldn’t organize the proverbial piss-up in a brewery. I’m certainly not saying it reached the level of throwing serious doubt on Cunliffe or Key’s credibility, but they might want to watch that. IIRC, there’s one more debate on One in the final week. That’s not when you want the media focused on asking whether you’re just clueless about your own big ticket policies or deliberately being *cough* strategically ambiguous.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    Hosking’s inability to stop them talking over each other so much and the short time available per answer gave little incentive to dwell on specifics.

    Fair point -- I really don't know how politicians think talking over each other reads but it bugs the hell out of me. It all comes down to whether you take these things seriously, or view them as infotainment; I wonder if Hosking was just told to let them go at each other, and pray they'd lose their shit for a quick and easy "political bitch-slap!" lead.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Saw bits and pieces, while sitting around with our hosts and the television on the background. Seems to me both Key and Cunliffe should be reasonably happy about how it turned out – nobody came up with a soundbite gaffe that will haunt them for the rest of the campaign. Key wasn’t goofy, and Cunliffe did a pretty good job of avoiding that slightly patronizing tone he can slip into to.

    Cunliffe benefited from having taken a couple of days to prepare -- something Key publicly dismissed as unnecessary. And I was quite surprised by what Brent Edwards said: that Cunliffe had a crew in the audience and was consulting with Rob Salmond during the ad breaks, and Key seemed to have no one with him but his DPS staff.

    Key wasn't bad, but Cunliffe got in a couple of good speeches and stopped Key from getting his own narrative on. I thought it was tactically astute.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    What happened to the worm? The Herald provided an interactive dial thing but not sure who monitored or who could see it. It was hard work watching the live streams from both TVNZ and the Green room and tapping the dial all on one computer screen!

    Afterwards joined the crowds wandering around the wonderful Lux light sculpture displays along the Wellington waterfront and along the little lanes. Some were activated by screaming which delighted the many children taking advantage of that opportunity. It’s on till Sunday night so those who can should go.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3214 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Nah, that dog’s not going to hunt. You just don’t get to have it both ways, Sofie – perhaps I’m naive, but I expect party leaders to be able to clearly articulate the details of their own policy especially when (let’s be honest) they’re hardly missing an opportunity to call the other bastards liars who couldn’t organize the proverbial piss-up in a brewery.

    As I understood it at the time, the only was he could have come up with the exact number Hosking was demanding was literally to make it up.

    It wasn't as if he didn't have quite a bit of detail on the policy.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    I lay the blame on both Hosking and whoever set the format with ad breaks. Hosking’s inability to stop them talking over each other so much and the short time available per answer gave little incentive to dwell on specifics.

    I thought the structure was odd: they seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time circling around land/immigration/investment. It leaves a lot for next week’s debate to cover.

    Cunliffe did do more of the talking-over, and I'm sure it wasn't an accident. It actually worked fairly well for him.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Quote of the morning!
    ‘Judas’ Collins on morning report:

    "Susie you may be looking at the Parliamentary Manual,
    but lets look at the facts…"

    …what a woman!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • william blake, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Some were activated by screaming

    Nice analogy as to how I feel about politicians at the moment; the need to shriek to get the lights to come on.

    Since Mar 2010 • 380 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    an aside...

    Some were activated by screaming...

    Key was right on one thing in the debate, when he said there will be people screaming at their TV sets - mostly about him and Hosking though!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Gavin White,

    By focusing on the cost of the text-in / website 'poll', people are missing its true idiocy. The 'poll' asked 'who won the debate' (past tense), but people were able to vote right from the BEGINNING. So many did so that the online voting system crashed by the FIRST ad break.

    The closing addresses, for example, often have a big influence on perceptions of who wins a debate, but would have had negligible influence on that 'poll', simply because the vast bulk of responses would have been collected earlier. Given that the website crashed early on (meaning that it was receiving a lot of votes), it seems probable that a significant percentage were submitted in the first few moments of the debate.

    If it measures anything, it measures who people expected to win, not who actually did. Coupled with all the other problems of text-in / website polls, it has no statistical validity whatsoever.

    Would it have been so hard to have the poll afterwards?

    Wellington • Since Jul 2014 • 16 posts Report Reply

  • Nora Leggs, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Afterwards joined the crowds wandering around the wonderful Lux light sculpture displays along the Wellington waterfront and along the little lanes. …. It’s on till Sunday night so those who can should go.

    and pop some pictures up on the old Capture, Dark Arts thread - for election campaign 'light relief' : )

    Auckland • Since Dec 2011 • 2700 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    It’s on till Sunday night so those who can should go.

    I was most impressed by the black barrel sculpture. I once used those 44 gallon drums in my own light sculpture. So I appreciated those more sophisticated versions at the Lux.

    Wasn’t it nice to engage in a civic event that wasn’t overwhelmed by corporate sponsorship. There are some things that really do need to be separated from corporate advertising as much as possible.

    Y'know, like I need to be pointed to the bank with the best mortgage rate, in the middle of the leaders debate about home ownership. And if we can afford to subsidize the Americas cup team and the All blacks, why don’t we subsidize national broadcasting enough to have advertisement free political debates?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to steven crawford,

    Steven, Steven, Steven. When are are going to realise that an opportunity to make money always trumps public interest?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I wonder if Hosking was just told to let them go at each other

    Cunliffe says Hosking told them to "parry". Then the guy bitches about them doing exactly that in one of his smug ZB columns.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to Gavin White,

    By focusing on the cost of the text-in / website 'poll', people are missing its true idiocy. The 'poll' asked 'who won the debate' (past tense), but people were able to vote right from the BEGINNING. So many did so that the online voting system crashed by the FIRST ad break.

    It was a pointless addition to the debate, along with the dry ice. While TVNZ used their best efforts to turn the event into some sort of game show, the text poll was a bad joke. It would be interesting to see a geographic breakdown of where those texts were coming from. Not a lot from South Auckland I reckon.

    Maybe it's projection on my part, but I feel that Key is starting to look tired and a good deal older these days. The fallout from Dirty Politics and having to continuously defend the indefensible Judith seems to be taking its toll.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1433 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I thought the structure was odd: they seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time circling around land/immigration/investment.

    I thought that was a bit odd too, because Winston's usual Yellow Peril dog-whistle bullshit aside is it really that big an issue for anyone? Still, I think Cunliffe (to his credit) managed to avoid getting that stink all over him, though I still think someone needs to nut up and call bullshit on the not-that-subtly coded race-baiting behind chuntering about "foreign ownership." I mentally turn down the volume a notch every time China gets mentioned to the exclusion of everywhere else.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I blogged about last night including some useful supporting links. Scroll to the bottom to watch the 15m clip of Hager’s masterful speech the previous day, even if you ignore the rest.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Lucy Lawless comes to similar conclusions.

    If we do not require integrity in our representatives, we are basically ceding control of our policymakers.
    ...
    This is our chance to reinforce our reputation as the least corrupt nation on earth. The Dirty Politics allegations are thankfully not on a par with the kind of filth being exposed by Operation Yewtree in the UK, but we may as well nip this in the bud, right? And don't listen to people who think all politicians are dishonest. The vast majority want to contribute to the welfare and prosperity of our people and it's our responsibility to see that they do. As they say, we get the government we deserve.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    Two impressions - not words - stood out in the debate. David Cunliffe physically took over, moving into Key's space, defining his own and looking centred and confident, without overbearing. That's a big change. He came across on screen for the first time as he does in person.

    The other was how rattled, even diminished, John Key looked from the first glimpse. I conjecture that he watched, or was told of, Winston Peters' claims on TV3 at 6pm. He was reeling, like we have never seen before. He almost got back into stride a couple of times but curiously tailed off.

    Could have watched with the sound off really.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2898 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.