Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Drugs and Sex

176 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 8 Newer→ Last

  • Kyle Matthews,

    You do realise that standing takes up less room?

    Grant didn't tell me I had to bring a handbag!

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    Grant didn't tell me I had to bring a handbag!

    Where else do you stash your hipflask?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Medicinal Cannabis: the vote

    national bloc-voted against, the Greens and ACT (bar Douglas, who was overseas) supported it, and Labour split down the middle, with the younger intake massively voting to send it to committee.

    The latter bodes well for the future.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    just about every non-OECD country that is a major exporter of oil is either in a state of civil war or under an extremely corrupt and repressive dictatorship. it may be peaceful for you, but not for the Nigerians, Iraqis, et al

    Perhaps I did not make myself clear,

    Murderous criminality is a feature of a narcotics industry based on prohibitionism. It is not true that the same can be said of the petrochemical industry.

    I am well aware of the injustices associated with unbridled greed and power. Of course oil is used to fund brutal regimes.

    My point was that 100% of you cocaine dollar funds murderous criminal gangs, whereas the same can not be said of oil.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 528 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler,

    My point was that 100% of you cocaine dollar funds murderous criminal gangs, whereas the same can not be said of oil.

    Devils advocate - maybe <1% goes to poor subsistance farmers in Afghanistan; which might be similar to the proportion of oil money going to the friendly service station owner-operator down the street, the rest going to "murderous criminal gangs" with names like Exxon, Shell etc.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 856 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    100% of you cocaine dollar funds murderous criminal gangs

    Well, not *quite* 100%. The low-level dealers to whom people pay their money are unlikely to be murderous, surely. It's bad for business at that end of the chain.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Kong,

    My point was that 100% of you cocaine dollar funds murderous criminal gangs, whereas the same can not be said of oil.

    That is true. Mining and distributing oil is not illegal, so you don't need to be a criminal gang to do it. But murderous seems to go with it pretty much automatically and on a scale that dwarfs the drug war.

    None of that is an argument to criminalize oil, which is simply a good, like cocaine. That it is used to kill people in ways only dreamed of in the 19th century is simply a byproduct of how useful it is. The more useful and desirable, the more people will kill for it. People were enslaved for centuries making sugar and cotton, but everyone can see that the answer to that was their emancipation, rather than banning sugar and cotton.

    Since Jul 2009 • 89 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    Murderous criminality is a feature of the petroleum extraction industry driven by control of valuable and strategic resources. Maybe 100% of your petrol bill doesn't fund violence, but a significant chunk does.

    geological constraints on petroleum extraction coupled with political factors affecting demand and supply bring us to the situation we have now for oil.

    with drugs, it's nearly all dictated by politics.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • Laki Laban,

    If I grow my own cannabis for my own use the only person or people I will "harm" are dealers and gangs so where is the crime?

    Prohibition creates "criminals" surely it would be cheaper to decriminalise cannabis than to stack prisoners in shipping containers (people don't stack as well as frozen romneys either).

    As per the CiR i guess there are no so called "average mother"s tied to right wing evangelical groups associated with NORMAL who can instigate such?

    Rongotai Electorate • Since Nov 2008 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Laki Laban,

    Also very disappointing the Nats can bloc vote on a "conscience" issue.....

    Rongotai Electorate • Since Nov 2008 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Mikaere

    Murderous criminality is a feature of a narcotics industry based on prohibitionism

    You do know that Underbelly was sexed up for th' tele?
    And that up until the OECD had its first "oil crisis" in the early 70's as good as all profits from Th' Oil went off shore.

    And if you think that, now, oil profits goes to those who rightly deserve it?
    The House of Saud is full of psychopaths

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Also very disappointing the Nats can bloc vote on a "conscience" issue.....

    Whether an issue is a conscience vote or not is a question for each individual party. Sometimes they all agree, and every MP gets a free vote. Other times, some treat an issue as one of conscience while others (usually those whose gonads Peter Dunne has his fist wrapped tightly around) do not. This was one of the latter.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Sex and Drugs and... What! No Rock n Roll...?
    We are huddled together in a bottomless hole...!

    Probably NSFW - but good for Peter Jackson fans - do "Tube-on" and check out theses guys nifty "Crispiin Glover & David Lynch - Blockbuster"...

    Oil's well that ends swell...
    oh yeah! Shell, Mobil and Chevron are excellent corporate models for humanity and their little enabling buddies Halliburton & KBR - let's lay pipe!

    And don't forget the other great corporations - back in the day every ball of opium sold in China had Queen Victoria's stamp of approval on it - fresh from the "Company's" own plantations in India - can you say "Empire by enslavement" children? (oh and by "flag planting" too... - thanks Eddie! )
    - I knew you could...
    let's...er blow pipe...

    yrs
    Commissioner Lin Ze-xu
    Piper at the Gates of Dawn

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Laki Laban,

    Thanks for the clarification re: conscience votes, still, none the less disappointing...

    Rongotai Electorate • Since Nov 2008 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Mallard,

    And if there had been a bit of work on drafting a half useful bill then a lot more of us would have voted for it. I don't know whether it was laziness or a lack of judgement on Metiria's part but frankly the bill presneted to parliament looked like it had been drafted by someone who had been high for weeks.

    Since Jul 2009 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    A Brave New World Order...
    a litle riff of night musick to soothe the Savidge breast...

    ...too right who wants the Government controlling yer chemicals - as Huxley wrote to Orwell in 1949:
    "Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience."

    ...more Fluoride and Aspartame in your Pavlova anyone? Ad what's on the telly...


    Soma Time - and the Loving is Easy...

    ''Hug me till you drug me, honey;
    Kiss me till I'm in a coma;
    Hug me, honey, snuggly bunny;
    Love's as good as soma."

    The Elder Huxley

    now take it away Barry Ferny...

    (hey guys your guitars aren't plugged in... cool!)
    Love and Music two of the great meterless drugs...

    Musick has Charms to sooth a savage Breast,
    To soften Rocks, or bend a knotted Oak.
    I've read, that things inanimate have mov'd,
    And, as with living Souls, have been inform'd,
    By Magick Numbers and persuasive Sound.
    What then am I? Am I more senseless grown
    Than Trees, or Flint? O force of constant Woe!
    'Tis not in Harmony to calm my Griefs.
    Anselmo sleeps, and is at Peace; last Night
    The silent Tomb receiv'd the good Old King;
    He and his Sorrows now are safely lodg'd
    Within its cold, but hospitable Bosom.
    Why am not I at Peace?
    William Congreve

    Yrs
    Opie 8
    A Ron Howard clone

    ps: spot ya later - I'm off to see Greg Johnson at the Dux

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Prince,

    Russell, you seem to suggest that select committees are the only place in NZ where evidence can be found; the evidence on marijuana and schizophrenia is already out there, some of us have read it and it looks bad for Metiria.

    A lot of the evidence came from the Dunedin study which predates the earliest cannabis use of the participants, the research having started at birth. Twice as likely to develop schizophrenia after using marijuana (as you say, still a small percentage overall but significant) and 140 times more likely to go on to use hard drugs. The idea that there is relief from schizophrenia is unbelievable; when I see the evidence I'll believe it. The results of the Flinders study have been nicely twisted and I doubt the research would even make it to select committee stage.

    Metiria Turel has hitched her wagon to the 'let us smoke pot crowd' and her argument for medical marijuana would be a lot more credible if she separated the issues.

    I do not doubt that some people gain relief by using marijuana. People everyday also gain relief from opium poppy derivatives; controlled and managed by health professionals, but people don't grow and produce morphine at home. What makes marijuana so special?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 12 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    You can grow it at home.

    And if there had been a bit of work on drafting a half useful bill then a lot more of us would have voted for it. I don't know whether it was laziness or a lack of judgement on Metiria's part but frankly the bill presneted to parliament looked like it had been drafted by someone who had been high for weeks.

    Dear Mr Mallard, please check your work for spelling mistakes before presenting it to the committee, and dearest Mr Mallard please improve education in the dual island constabulary to invite more reasonable jury verdicts.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    the logic of the prohibitionist:

    if something is likely to be harmful to a small percentage of people, ban it and fuck the consequences. even if the overall consequences of prohibition to society are far worse than the original harm likely to be caused.

    they have the solution and yes, it's working a treat.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    140 times more likely to go on to use hard drugs

    Since most users of 'hard drugs' use them recreationally, and tend to give them up without ever becoming addicted, I'm not sure what that statistic proves, really...

    'let us smoke pot crowd'

    We gather in crowds? I thought we were all too lazy to leave the couch. :)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    I thought we were all too lazy to leave the couch. :)

    except to turn on the knives.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Welcome, Trevor. You certainly put in the hard yards around the blogosphere.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Leopold,

    OK - I agree with the legalisation of Mary Jane for some medical reasons.
    The problem is that Metiria's bill in its schedule, lists schizophrenia and other psychotic illnesses as a reason to take it. I have yet to meet a mental health professional who would accept that.

    In fact, those suffering mental illness should not take it. Marijuana use can lead those already predisposed by other factors into psychosis.

    Since Jan 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    And if there had been a bit of work on drafting a half useful bill then a lot more of us would have voted for it. I don't know whether it was laziness or a lack of judgement on Metiria's part but frankly the bill presneted to parliament looked like it had been drafted by someone who had been high for weeks.

    Could you give us an example of what parts of it, you think, look like the work of a stoner?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell, you seem to suggest that select committees are the only place in NZ where evidence can be found; the evidence on marijuana and schizophrenia is already out there, some of us have read it and it looks bad for Metiria.

    Yes, I've read it too. It's important research, but it informs policy, it doesn't create it. You still have to consider what is the state's best response in minimising harm. And harm includes the harms generated by prohibition -- from the way the trade benefits criminal gangs to the fact that it's harder for health services to reach at-risk users.

    The one thing the present law assuredly does not do is stop people consuming cannabis. Marijuana has become a rite of passage -- about three quarters of all young New Zealanders use it at some point. According the the Auckland School of Medicine surveys, almost all of them stop or curtail their use as they age -- but almost none of them do so because pot is illegal.

    The law doesn't achieve its goal in any way. That has also been the view of two Parliamentary select committee inquiries in the past decade. It's also the view of the New Zealand Drug Foundation, which takes an evidence-based approach.

    (Using the same approach the foundation also advocates for more regulation of alcohol and its marketing.)

    Twice as likely to develop schizophrenia after using marijuana (as you say, still a small percentage overall but significant) and 140 times more likely to go on to use hard drugs.

    The Dunedin study told us some really important things -- the psychological risks of cannabis use are in inverse proportion to the age of first use. People under 18 shouldn't use it. And, also, a small but significant group is genetically vulnerable to mental health problems -- but they can actually be screened. Or could, if the focus was on harm reduction.

    Whether it actually demonstrates the legendary "gateway" effect is far less clear. What is says is that people who use one recreational drug are more likely to use other recreational drugs. You would doubtless find that hard drug users were vastly more likely than the general population to have used alcohol and tobacco too.

    I'm not starry-eyed about legalisation, for the simple reason that not all harms are the consequence of prohibition, as some people like to think. The social harms of a free market in P hitting the suburbs hardly bear thinking about. I think the state has a responsibility to try and prevent that kind of social harm.

    But there's a debate we need to be able to have about how best to do that. I'd like to see safe, legal highs available (hopefully we'd learn from the shambles around BZP). It would be possible to design in characteristics -- predictable dose-response curve, resistance to overdose, etc -- that could make them safer than, say, alcohol. (And yes, the soma angle is a little creepy.)

    But what we can't do is insist we have all the answers and things are just fine as they are.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 8 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.