Hard News: A few (more) words on The Hobbit
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On tax relief: it might have been required to keep the production here, but it's not what it was all about. If Helen was right about this she should be able to point to Warners asking for tax relief before the boycott. She can't because they didn't.
On the boycott: the notices lifting the boycott when up on the unions' sites on the 20th. This is when the actors knew they could sign contracts for The Hobbit. That's when the boycott was lifted. Helen was right in that there were discussions about it being lifted on the 17th but it was actually lifted on the 20th.
So I don't agree that she was right on either count.
Sorry to be late - but Derek Cheng's article answers both of these questions. Particularly interesting is:
Emails show Warner Bros and Equity had drafted statements about the end of the boycott up to five days earlier. The documents suggest that it was Sir Peter who was unhappy with the wording of Equity's statement because of the words "the spirit of good faith", and that had delayed release.
Hard to believe that if Sir Peter knew, Fran Walsh did not. Hard, then, in my opinion, to justify her calling Helen Kelly a liar.
And interesting that he's not prepared to approach negotiations in the spirit of good faith - which is the backbone of our current industrial law.
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And interesting that he's not prepared to approach negotiations in the spirit of good faith - which is the backbone of our current industrial law.
Ah, my reading of that was that he didn't agree with Equity saying it, not that he wasn't perfectly filled with it himself!
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Hard to believe that if Sir Peter knew, Fran Walsh did not. Hard, then, in my opinion, to justify her calling Helen Kelly a liar.
Or Kelly accusing Richard Taylor of deceptively whipping up a "lynch mob mood" -- since there seems to be no evidence Taylor was ever party to these negotiations conducted with cast-iron gags on the participants?
And interesting that he's not prepared to approach negotiations in the spirit of good faith - which is the backbone of our current industrial law.
FFS, Jan, not being willing to enter into negotiations he didn't believe he had legal standing or moral authority to engage in isn't my idea of bad faith. And I rather doubt Jennifer Ward-Lealand or Simon Whipp would have been no more keen to sign off on a press statement that could have been spun as a tacit admission they hadn't acted "in the spirit of good faith".
Then again, I suspect Jackson has given up waiting for a formal retraction and apology for the factually inaccurate (and widely reported) claims that The Hobbit was ever a non-union production.
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Jackson was just beside himself with anxiety over having to deal with an actors unions that had all the focus and lucidity of an alley full of stray cats on P.
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I know there is more than one side to this debate. I just have to keep repeating it to myself when I read some of the responses (yours excluded Jacqui).
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And on the feline theme, most charitably and trivially:
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If there's any novel begging to be adapted to film, it'd have to be Snow Crash. Last I heard, film rights were sold but no one actually got it beyond pre-production. Or is it really that unfilmable?
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It would be difficult, but Cryptonomicon would be worse IMHO (I so wish someone decent would try, though)
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Roughan sounds like he just doesn't like speculative fiction, "childish" being one of the main criticisms of that school of thought.
Emma, Craig, there's a good riposte by Tolkein himself in the essay "On Fairy Stories" - Google will show it's various publications.
Yes, I'm very tired of the condescending "speculative fiction is for children, now eat your broccoli - it'll make you a man" argument.
If there's any novel begging to be adapted to film,
Now while The Book of the New Sun would make a splendid series (hmmm, and M. John Harrison's In Viriconium would be a nice little low-budget piece), it would be rather shocking ("No-one expects the Seekers of Truth and Penitence!"), I'd be quite keen to see an Iain M Banks adaptation too... get the discomforting chair...
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China Meiville/Orson Scott Card/Greg Bear also have a depth of publications that could make excellent film scripts/series...
I would also recommend "Leaf, by Niggle" by JRRT, as a further defence of speculative fiction/fantasy-
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I love it when people talk Movie. The great Movies are still great.
Peter Jackson made "bad taste" as a kid, he's a film maker.
He needs a clearer labour world to work in.He's a Cecille B Demille and he's ours. -
The funny thing is that speculative fiction/fantasy is one of the most lucrative genres of film... it's so very, very odd considering that American fiction is supposed to to be realist in mode... and yet Philip K Dick is one of the most influential writers around if Hollywood is any guide - apart from the adaptations of his works, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Inception, Requiem For a Dream, Memento, The Matrix [etc] , Battlestar Galactica could all be pastiches.
Certainly Hollywood sf is at a crass, unimaginative, formulaic level, but so many directors and writers manage to get some quite sophisticated, layered stories produced, and make money doing so (Hello Mr Cameron, are you listening? You were once.).
And, and and... Ridley Scott's supposed to be making Haldeman's The Forever war and I'd looove to see an adaptation of Pohl's Gateway ...
Excuse me, I need a cold shower.
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And on the feline theme, most charitably and trivially:
There's a whole series of these which were cool the first time around but after seeing them ad nauseum at every education sector ICT conference over the last 5 years I'm over them. Here's the plane building one.
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Certainly Hollywood sf is at a crass, unimaginative, formulaic level, but so many directors and writers manage to get some quite sophisticated, layered stories produced, and make money doing so (Hello Mr Cameron, are you listening? You were once.).
So right,and The Wire, Sopranos and Mad Men are so fucking well done with amazing scripts that you feel no need to see a movie,they do everything better.Lighting, set, actors, plot....
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...not being willing to enter into negotiations he didn't believe he had legal standing or moral authority to engage in isn't my idea of bad faith.
Agreed. Plus, why would anyone agree to "quietly meet" in an illegal discussion, in good faith? That good faith could be turned against you, in very bad faith, very easily. Better to seek legal council than to even go there is by far a more prudent thing to do, imo. Especially when you have such a high profile.
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Yes, certain narratives suit series format better than film. Watchmen , I think, would have better as a serial. Battlestar definitely benefitted from series format rather than being a film.
The 80s and early 90s saw some excellent television drama that could only have worked on television, with it's gradual building up and convergence of plot threads and its unveiling of layers; consider The Singing Detective, Edge of Darkness and Our Friends in the North . The anticipation between episodes was part of the drama.
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...all the focus and lucidity of an alley full of stray cats on P
A keeper!
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"Peter Jackson....needs a cleaner labour world to work in."
"Cleaner" =More manipulatible by law? Coercible? Less rights? More control of times/conditions/etcetera?
Jeremy Eade, I really have come to think you have more brains in your arse than your left little finger.Please use Google to check out how "CecilleBDemille"'s name should actually be spelt.
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Oh dear, you seem to be upset. have a sit down.
Cleaner means he shouldn't be involved. Fuck spelling, really fuck it.
and the brain is in your head.I did science at school.
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The war on spelling has failed. ...well more grammar, it's just a nonsense from old kids who went though more formal education systems with a hell of a lot of emphasis on spel.
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He's a Cecille B Demille and he's ours.
That'd be Colin McKenzie.
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Jeremy Eade - grammar & spelling are the tools that make written English such a diabolically good language to play with. You are obviously not a player. Cool. Enjoy your semi-literacy.
"cleaner" has never meant "shouldnt be involved."
Yeah, I've learned/been academically qualified in quite a lot of biology subjects also. Practically qualified in rather more...
Anyway, you go have a cuppa & a lie down with your not-wholly-supported belief that Jackson is a genius.
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Joe -that was one of jackson&Others' real goodies!
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...not being willing to enter into negotiations he didn't believe he had legal standing or moral authority to engage in isn't my idea of bad faith.
Agreed. Plus, why would anyone agree to "quietly meet" in an illegal discussion, in good faith? That good faith could be turned against you, in very bad faith, very easily. Better to seek legal council than to even go there is by far a more prudent thing to do, imo. Especially when you have such a high profile.
I think you're all missing the point. The issue there was the wording of the withdrawal of the actor's ban. Nothing illegal there. Indeed, rather polite of the actors to give him the opportunity I would have thought.
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jackson&Others
Particularly Costa Botes, who'd earlier distinguished himself with this little gem.
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